Dr. Nicole Price: 0:00

I love my insurance agent, but I didn't at first. In fact, she's to get on my nerves, because I thought she was giving me fake empathy and fake care and concern. But over time with more questions, what I have realized that she has probably read all my products and she watches, interviews and she is quite interested in me. And she even remembers things like the day my mother died. So I am Dr. Nicole price, and I am an honorary insurance do that.

Craig Pretzinger: 0:30

Oops. Oh, yes. Love it. All. Right, insurance dudes are on a mission to escape big hiccup by our agencies. How?

Jason Feltman: 0:44

by uncovering the secrets to creating a predictable, consistent, and profitable agency Sales Machine.

Craig Pretzinger: 0:51

Hi, I'm Craig Pretzinger.

Jason Feltman: 0:52

I am Jason Feldman. We are agents. We are insurances. So tell us about you thought that like she was just all over you. Right? Like, it was just, it was just too much. Tell me about like, and I love that you talked about the empathy part, especially, you know, regarding your book and everything. So let's dive into that a little bit. Yeah. And

Dr. Nicole Price: 1:15

yeah, I thought she was being fake. I thought she had gone to some insurance sales persons class. And they told me these 10 things. And so she did them for all her clients, and she has a spreadsheet, keep up with me or something. But over time, it was very clear that that's not actually what it was that she was actually interested in the things that I was doing, and uses them to run her business. So I do leadership development, consulting, at the time that I first met her. I don't know that I was an empathy revolutionary as I am today. And I usually try to figure out how to get work done despite people and did not want to talk to my agent ever. Like, why are you emailing me? I pay my bill. Leave me alone.

Craig Pretzinger: 2:00

So why was she trying to connect?

Dr. Nicole Price: 2:02

Well, I think she that's just who she is actually. Get that right away. But that's probably more because that's not who I was necessarily. I thought everybody was kind of doing this the fake thing. And I'm like, Girl, so you sent me the link to pay the bill. And I'll pay you didn't get to do all that. But one day, I had done a local interview on a TV show. And she sent me a note commenting about it. And I was like, Oh, well, how'd she even know about that? If she's not missed, like nine o'clock in the morning on daytime? News. And I was like, Oh my gosh, she's actually following me. So then I went and kind of read some emails that I was not reading. And I realized that oh my gosh, like who's the jerk in this relationship? That was absolutely been me.

Craig Pretzinger: 2:52

Wow. Oh, that's a big step to actually identify that right? Yeah. For him. Just not just you. Anybody. Right? Are humans to admit wrong?

Dr. Nicole Price: 3:03

Yeah. I mean, listen, she's doing me a service. And I'm paying, she's trying to provide good customer service. And what would I want? If I were in that role? I wouldn't want to be ignored, I wouldn't want somebody to assume the worst, I wouldn't want someone act irritated every time I called them. And that was my work to do. And apparently, lots of insurance agents get treated that way until they till they're needed. And that's that's that we got to

Craig Pretzinger: 3:29

maybe all of them all.

Dr. Nicole Price: 3:33

So let's just claim it All.

Jason Feltman: 3:35

All. Right. Nobody wants to talk to an insurance agent. I don't even want to talk to an insurance agent. Like it's not the fun phone call, like getting a root canal. Right?

Dr. Nicole Price: 3:46

I don't want to audit my artwork. I know why surely, because if something happened, I'll be so mad that I didn't get it all captured. Right?

Craig Pretzinger: 3:56

It's like, how much can I get away with before I need the thing? Or how much can I procrastinate?

Dr. Nicole Price: 4:02

Like, it's time for me to renew my driver's? My license plates. And I'm like, oh, where's my sky?

Craig Pretzinger: 4:09

Even know, like, I can't believe I don't have it.

Jason Feltman: 4:13

Yeah, what's my password

Dr. Nicole Price: 4:15

to get in? But these are simple. But yeah, it's, you know, I think I'm the worst person to talk about empathy. And people keep telling me that that's not true. But I think I'm the worst because it's not natural. I've had to work on it. I've had to learn how to build it to try to put myself in the shoes of another person. Just what they think, feel and believe. And honestly, it makes us better business owners. If we understand people better. Too often people think Empathy means that you gotta be nice and kind, which that's probably good for business. But understanding Honestly, if I could think about one thing she could have done differently is kind of understood who I was in that moment, and maybe reserved a little bit of her mental energy until I was ready for it. Yeah, she was wasting time. Time.

Craig Pretzinger: 5:00

Yeah, right. Hang on a little strong. Yeah. Yeah. It's

Dr. Nicole Price: 5:03

like love bombing or something. I don't. Yeah,

Jason Feltman: 5:06

totally.

Craig Pretzinger: 5:06

A little BS meter starts going off and you're like, wait a minute, what? Why are you being so nice?

Dr. Nicole Price: 5:10

Why are you being so nice? Am I paying extra?

Craig Pretzinger: 5:13

Are you east coast?

Dr. Nicole Price: 5:14

I'm actually in the Midwest in that terrible. I'm like,

Craig Pretzinger: 5:17

you're supposed to be super nice. Just like, that's

Dr. Nicole Price: 5:21

that's the bad part about the Midwest. We're all like, Midwest nice. But this air quotes over here, right? Like, we got to act like it, but I was rolling my eyes and all things.

Craig Pretzinger: 5:31

So I think like, empathy is one of these things. And and it's a tough one, right? Like, it's tough to know it understand it. And I think that a lot of people get empathy confused with other, I guess, is it emotion other things like compassion, kindness? It's sort of that but not really, right? That's right.

Dr. Nicole Price: 5:51

In fact, I would say, Well, my mother died. Many people came up with the funeral. And they talked about how she was just the kindest person ever. And I remember almost not being able to sit still. Because I'm like, my mom was empathetic, she was charitable, she would help you, but she wasn't nice. wouldn't use those words, now. feed you? Yes. But she wouldn't sit around talking about your puppy all day, like it wasn't happening. And so I think sometimes when people are anti empathy, they think about it, because they're like, Oh, I gotta be nice to these people. Or I've gotta, I gotta agree with people to be empathetic with to them, they have to be deserving, for me to be empathetic. And yeah, in the most simplest way, I say empathy is trying to understand that no matter what another person thinks, feels or believes it makes total sense to them. Right? Makes total sense to them. And from that lens now, how should I respond? How should I?

Craig Pretzinger: 7:03

That's it right there. I wonder how much like the the world with the social media and everything has changed the amount of empathy? Because it seems like people just on social media, like, you know, it's, it's, I'm gonna yell at you louder with my opinion, instead of trying to understand your opinion. Yeah,

Dr. Nicole Price: 7:21

the algorithms don't help us know. Right, they have seen these echo chambers, I tend to see things that are a little more controversial than things that are uplifting. And that's with me seeking out things about empathy and compassion and charity. That's not helping us. But also, it's a little easier to not understand or be empathetic to someone when they are when we don't humanize them. You're on the other side of a computer screen. Right? Even me like today, somebody said something in response to me on social media, and I got ready to respond on Instagram. But you know, some people have it, you can't respond back to them. It's like, add no. And I was like, See, I didn't need to spend any of my knee on that anyway. And so what happened was the universe saved me is one.

Craig Pretzinger: 8:10

Because you were about ready to talk I was, I was getting

Dr. Nicole Price: 8:13

ready. It was a fight. And I was telling a joke, like to go along, like I was just sticking with the joke that the original person told. And someone, like started treating it seriously. You know, I was like, Wait, what is this a satire site? If they don't know, this is a satire site. They don't need to hear from

Craig Pretzinger: 8:30

me, like, right over there on the onion, getting angry at the artist. To make

Dr. Nicole Price: 8:35

it sound like talk to a bot.

Craig Pretzinger: 8:39

You mentioned how you, you came from a place where you weren't empathetic, didn't have an understanding of empathy, and now have a book on it. So why don't you walk us through that journey. And then I'm going to shut up and let Jason talk for a while.

Dr. Nicole Price: 8:54

So I'm an engineer by degree by degree and people don't always think about it this way. But engineering school teaches you how to not be empathetic. So let's say I gotta get 200,000 parts out on Friday, and you're sick, Jason, I need to put somebody else in that spot. And I don't need to be thinking about them as a human. Right? I just need somebody I can plug into that spot, and can do the job just as you did without any break in productivity. And that's what engineering is, how can I make things design so well, that the show goes on? It's the reason why airplanes don't crash nearly as much anymore. It's not because pilots are better. We have engineered out the human dynamics that make it such that you can put your battery in your car wrong. You can't you can try but you can't. It's not possible. can't do anymore, where you used to be able to. And so I've been trained kind of to be more objective, less thoughtful of individual people and taking more of a bird's eye view. But my mom in particular is probably the primary reason why I'm not very empathetic. So I know I've not been in therapy about this, but it's, it's true. She was the minister of like, food at church. And so then she would feed everybody at home too. And I think that sounds good in theory, until you have 5060 people coming by your house every day. And when you're a kid, that's just disruptive. And some of these people have had interesting backgrounds have made interesting choices. And while they're coming to eat, they're also telling stories about, you know, they'd been in jail, like the fourth time, or they don't have their kids because the state has taken them. Well, I mean, just story after story after story. And as a child, I was overwhelmed. And I would just zone out like, Do you need some toast with that? I mean, I just would just complete, right? Right, it was overwhelming. For me, I didn't have good boundaries. And I used to think she didn't have good boundaries. And then when she passed away, there were so many people who were wanting to come to celebrate her, they we had to have two services. And we had to go to a different place, because there were 1000s of people who wanted to celebrate

Craig Pretzinger: 11:23

her life coach so many lives.

Dr. Nicole Price: 11:25

And what was interesting about her death was that she was killed by a guy who was who had stolen a car, and was drinking and driving and had run a red light. So we're now in this, like, murder trial, oh, my gosh, and I'm doing the engineering thing, right? I take off work for the little bit of time they give you and then I go back to work. And I'm just supposed to just do my work, because the show must go on. And you're grabbing your face, because you know, that's not how it works. Yeah. And so for the first time in my life, my brain could not get me out of what I was emotionally feeling. And I started to notice other people who were having that same experience. And I realized that before, then I was one of those people who would have never noticed, ever, ever. And it just drastically changed the way I think about people. And but I, you know, once I got over my grief event, I did start to try to train leaders to be better, but I wasn't thinking about empathy. I still thought about that as something HR people do, or I don't know, your therapist or something. But one day, I was talking to one of the wealthiest people in my region. And he had sat through one of my leadership sessions. And he said, you know, thank you very much. And I'm like, Okay, what is he about to say, next, like, you know, when people giving you feedback, they start giving you the good stuff first, you're like, Oh, my God, what's happening, what's about to come? And he goes, that was really good intellectually. But I was hoping that you would help me get it emotionally. And then he said, a whole bunch of things after that. But I was just stuck on. It just told me he'll care nothing about what I just said. Just told me, I just said, but it was it was an epiphany, because it's like, none of this stuff we're trying to do is going to work unless we really learn how to care. Meaning, what is Jason really thinking, feeling believing? What does he need right now, I do love my artwork. My if my agent talked to me about what would happen if there was some travesty, and I lost these pieces and wasn't able to get them replaced. I tried to do my audit. You know, I probably do it. But you know, like, I get busy and prioritize other things. And I just truly believe that no matter what our jobs are, if we can lean into empathy, that it'll make us better at it. That's why I think,

Jason Feltman: 14:03

love it. So true. I have a question. Now that you're, I mean, you have the book out. Now you're marketing your book, you probably are learning a lot about sales and marketing, and you've probably geeked out on that stuff. Isn't it crazy? Like, like the best marketers and salespeople are the most empathetic people they are. It's, it's like, one of the biggest life changes in my life was when I sucked at sales, and I came into the insurance agency, and I started learning and trying to teach sales and then it like, completely changed my my like me, and then it changed. Like, I started seeing all the people that it started changing. And it's like, oh my gosh, like, you think sales is like evil. Like you don't I mean, like everybody, you know, can't stand that salesperson persona. But like a true salesperson and like somebody that's like marketing and it's like the most beautiful thing because it's showing that you care about the other person and you're trying to provide a solution for them. Yeah,

Dr. Nicole Price: 15:07

they are the center and not Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting because my general reaction to my insurance agent at first was absolutely because I thought she was trying to manipulate me 100%. And she had done nothing to. But it's just that bias we have against salespeople you say used car salesman and image comes to mind. Yeah.

Craig Pretzinger: 15:31

It's difficult to assume good intent. You know, especially after bad things have happened or things that didn't serve us have happened along the way, right? Like we we start to get this callus as we as we get older and more experiences, impact, and all of a sudden, we're like, you know, like your keyboard situation, but then the universe, or God or whoever intervened and said, No, you're not going there. I love that you're not

Dr. Nicole Price: 15:55

going there. I'm interested in knowing. Do you all like to talk to your insurance agents?

Jason Feltman: 16:01

No, I don't want to talk to anybody with

Dr. Nicole Price: 16:06

your own insurance, okay,

Craig Pretzinger: 16:07

we both own insurance agencies. And then we developed a way to a sales funnel that works using telemarketers and leads and all this stuff like it's a system, right? And so we put that together. And it worked really well in our own agencies. And then people started asking us because we were talking about it on this podcast, and that we created a company. And so what the really cool thing about is we've been able to we've actually employed over 200 people in the Philippines. Oh, nice. All these women. It's well, it's like 99.9% women that have that didn't have jobs had or if they did, they had to drive really far at night in the city, this whole thing. And now they get to work from home. And so it's pretty cool. Like we've actually made impact on hundreds of lives over there. So globally, huh? Yeah, that's pretty cool.

Dr. Nicole Price: 16:56

So are they working with people in the Philippines? Or they're working with your

Craig Pretzinger: 17:00

with with our with other insurance agents?

Dr. Nicole Price: 17:03

Oh, nice. Yeah. Nice.

Craig Pretzinger: 17:05

But those calls start that way too, right? Like, the person filled out a form on the internet. Yeah. And one second after they hit enter. a telemarketer is on the phone with them. And they're like, Oh, no. And, and they say, No, no, no, but we've teach, we've taught them how to keep them on get them over to the agent than the agent, using some of the stuff I'm sure we're going to talk about, gets, you know, gets them to the next steps

Dr. Nicole Price: 17:30

to the next step. That's cool. You know, it's been interesting, because spark the heart as a book, is getting some of the best feedback I've ever gotten from individuals, which is good. Yeah, even had preachers preach about it at church and things like that. But what I'm struggling with is organizations aren't buying it as much. So I every book I've ever written, usually the organization's call and say, Hey, come and teach this to my people. But empathy, what I'm starting to learn is that leaders and organizations are like, I gotta hold people accountable. We don't need to be empathetic. And it's like, ah, there's empathy and accountability are not at battle with each other. Right? Empathy is not the enemy of productivity or sales, it is the catalyst. Yes, to get there. And I don't know that I would have bought it before either. So I understand that position. But that's what I'm kind of up against. And it's been interesting to experience.

Jason Feltman: 18:37

Yeah, I would change just the cover, and connect some sort of financial outcome to it. And then, like, this is the manual of how to actually improve without, without having to spend more money, it will actually help you retain your staff. And, you know, everybody's,

Craig Pretzinger: 18:59

every, everybody's been counting all the time, right? Like, oh, I need to buy this many more leads to get to the next thing. But what if my leadership actually made them want to follow and be better and help the world and you know, all the things that that happen with the empathy, right, all the things

Dr. Nicole Price: 19:17

that happened with empathy, there's these interesting things that I've learned, like, let's say you got diabetes, and your physician is more empathetic. You are less likely to have to need a kidney transplant because you'll get your agency scores down at like 20 points, greater rates, and it's like, what because my doctors empathetic, but when you dig into it, they're asking questions about lifestyle. So they're giving you solutions that you'll actually do. They're thinking about like, what will you eat? What won't you eat? What can you stick to, versus just giving you a standard? Here, this is what you need to do eat right exercise and you know, less whatever. And so I've been just fine. fascinated by these very technical roles where outcomes have been better because of empathy.

Jason Feltman: 20:07

Yeah, you know, it's funny, like, somebody shot us an email for you to be on the podcast. And we get a ton of those. And we just dismiss a lot of them, right. But like the reason why, the reason why this one spoke so much to me, is because, like, as we are running our sales teams, as we have teams within our agencies, and just like on the front end, you're talking about the sales and like, the empathetic aspect of a sale is the difference of the old salesperson compared with the new sales. The old successful salesperson needed less empathy, the new successful salesperson needs more empathy. But as we built our organizations, I've seen so many agencies that have a team, and they lead more with like, Oh, that's a sales Rockstar, but that guy's asked to everybody in the agency and everybody quits. And like, the actual productivity sucks, like their agency sucks, there's their, their staff members are are leaving the their sales Rockstar really isn't that great to be to compare with other successful organizations. So what I've seen is like, honestly, like the the whole idea of have empathy, and truly caring about those around you, especially if you have a team, because I have eight hours a day or 10 hour, whatever I put into my work, but like, you start stacking all the hours of your team members. And really like if you can really care about them, they will care about you. And then all of a sudden you have an army of people, and then your care to them produces the care to your client, it trickles down.

Dr. Nicole Price: 21:54

It does.

Craig Pretzinger: 21:54

It's like like what God says with the five people you hang out with the most right? Like how, and it's if if they're there. I don't want to say monkey see monkey do. But you know, like they do what the boss does.

Dr. Nicole Price: 22:07

They do what you gotta model what you want to see, when we make excuses for people who show up in ways that are that lack human dignity for others, because of their outcomes and their numbers. Well, what does it cost you when you have to get a new salesperson every other week? Because they keep quitting? Because they can't work with that person? Way more?

Craig Pretzinger: 22:28

What is it 30k? Per Yeah, and

Dr. Nicole Price: 22:30

what's it cost you when people are sitting around talking about that person, instead of focusing on what they need to do? But you know, here's one thing that I hadn't considered. And it is was the leaders responsibility to actually talk to that person about how they're showing up. Too often we allow them to continue because their numbers are so great. But what if you actually said, Hey, what do you want your relationship to be like with your peers? I've not met a person who truly does not care what other people think about them. Now they're the right who have to get past it. But you know, we want to be liked, and you want to do a good job. And so sometimes, because no one's ever asked you to step up in that way, then you just keep doing what you've always done. And my question to the agents is, how's that working for you?

Jason Feltman: 23:27

Hmm. I love that.

Craig Pretzinger: 23:29

So agents, how is that working for you?

Jason Feltman: 23:33

Seriously, you should email us at the ideas.

Dr. Nicole Price: 23:37

Yeah, give us give us the ideas. Do that the idea? It's an honorary insurance.

Craig Pretzinger: 23:44

Yeah, well forward, if you have a question for you. Well, we're gonna get your details out to

Jason Feltman: 23:49

where do you have wars? Oh, we

Craig Pretzinger: 23:51

have? Yeah. I knew that.

Dr. Nicole Price: 23:55

I think it's interesting. When I hear you talk about like, people can't see your face. Jason, but your face when you were talking about how you became such a good salesperson and actually caring and how that just really impacted other people. I can feel it through the screen. Huh. I'm energized. You know, it's like, Isn't it nice to be with someone where you feel a little more energy coming from them versus somebody who's draining you? Because they absolutely. It's just drudgery?

Jason Feltman: 24:27

Yeah,

Craig Pretzinger: 24:28

she looked right at me when she said that last part.

Dr. Nicole Price: 24:32

No, no, not that.

Jason Feltman: 24:36

Not that way. He's old and tired. Let's just be

Dr. Nicole Price: 24:38

honest. Yeah. So I think I would like to know from you what's what's your advice you think, for how to get more insurance agents to be more empathetic?

Craig Pretzinger: 24:51

Will they need to read your book as they go? Now, which we'll put in there?

Dr. Nicole Price: 24:57

It's an easy read and it's on Audible too. Oh,

Craig Pretzinger: 25:01

yeah, that's easy for Jason. Dude, I

Jason Feltman: 25:03

I hammer through audible. I love audibles. Me too,

Dr. Nicole Price: 25:07

so good. But I did the reading and I can read. Oh cool,

Jason Feltman: 25:13

dude I am I'm that's awesome