Dr. Nicole Price: 0:00

You're not empathetic or not, you can learn to be empathetic. It is a muscle that you can dwell. It's like a muscle that you can build. Like everything else. If you practice, this is possible, and you can start wherever you want. And I give you the entire blueprint in the book sparked the heart engineering empathy in your organization.

Craig Pretzinger: 0:23

Insurance dudes are on a mission to escape big hit by our agencies. How?

Jason Feltman: 0:30

by uncovering the secrets to creating a predictable, consistent, and profitable agency Sales Machine.

Craig Pretzinger: 0:37

I am Craig Pretzinger.

Jason Feltman: 0:38

I am Jason Feldman. We are agents. We are insurances. I would say, you know, I think that I think it's the one thing that can be passed over like it, like, with all the worries of a business owner, and you know, everything that we think about that we think like, oh, we need to handle the things that are on fire right now. Like the bad client, the bills, this person called out sick, but so, so easy the to like, as far as like the, you know, empathy part and actually talking to people and like, it seems like it's a it's not worth the time, right? It's like, oh, my gosh, there's so many things, I think that I think people just need to realize that like, all the things that you think that you're worrying about, actually will get better. If you spend the time on the things that you think don't matter. So, it I would say one story I have is like my wife was the two nominee, she's gonna think God, she's not gonna hear this. See, she hates this. So she worked as a Starbucks manager, when when she was young, and actually right across the street from her. And she had a ton of employees. So this was, you know, 20 years ago. And it was, you know, with back then we were less empathetic, you know, as a society, let's say, you know, so it's like, it's like, don't show up to work than your brother legs, like, just just rule base. Well, when I started scaling my insurance agency, I was spending a lot of time on the phone with like, like a sales agent that was crying about something or like, you know what I mean, it was like, a lot of conversation. She's like, you're like a therapist? What are you doing? Like, you shouldn't do that. You should just fire them. If they're gonna be like that. It's like, oh, but like, well, some of the stuff that I maybe I took it a little, far of the conversations of, maybe, I don't know, I'm just saying,

Dr. Nicole Price: 2:49

are you operating like a therapist completely outside your licensure a little bit?

Jason Feltman: 2:53

A little bit, maybe maybe a little bit, I'm

Craig Pretzinger: 2:55

gonna have what it takes, you know, like, the thing

Jason Feltman: 3:00

in that was the realization was, that is what it takes. And sometimes that person does need a little help that's maybe outside of work a little bit. You know, I, you got to draw your own personal boundaries later. But like, like, once those conversations were so important. Well, we'll just

Craig Pretzinger: 3:19

like those situations where you make a difference, and you help somebody in that same way. Like what it's all when it when it comes to down the down the line when the other person is trashing you and trying to do something wrong. They're like, Ah, I got your back. You build an army of people that have your back, and you've got a lot more protection than than just going by up you're late by one minute. Get out of here, right, like, right.

Dr. Nicole Price: 3:44

Yeah, I've got one tool I want to leave with your listeners. So let me know when's the best time to share that because I want people to try just one little thing.

Jason Feltman: 3:54

Love it. I would love to hear it. Yeah, let's just do it. Let's go for it.

Dr. Nicole Price: 3:58

So I want and I want them to pick someone, their oldest customers.

Craig Pretzinger: 4:05

Oldest, like oldest in age or oldest in tenure,

Dr. Nicole Price: 4:08

oldest and age, okay. And I want them to do a ride along and act as if the person got stopped by police. Let's assume this is car insurance, auto insurance. And I want you to help them try to find their insurance card on their phone. And then, after you experience that, what do you think you need to change about your process? Oh, it'd be able to help them.

Craig Pretzinger: 4:36

And that's empathy. Right? That yourself in their shoes? That's

Dr. Nicole Price: 4:40

correct. Because what one of the reasons why I started what I call that I call that the empathy walk, getting redirected to whatever you need it to be. Whatever, you know, customers you think, struggle the most, but go and spend a day in their life so you can get a chance to see what some of our clients are lawyers and judges. And so we went to this huge conference mostly for judges will use all your biases. How old do you think the people are? They're mostly judges

Craig Pretzinger: 5:09

5070 Yeah. 67.

Dr. Nicole Price: 5:14

Yeah. So we were after a younger person to be to be a judge, right? So these are mostly just, so we get to after I give my keynote, and we've got our booth booth set up, and we didn't bring any paper. We just got a QR code on the thing. Some of them had flip phones, huh? Ah, I know. And I have some strong beliefs about the world. Did you still have a flip phone in 2023? Right. It's like a fax machine. And I'm 1,000% correct in my opinions? And if I'm going to have judges as clients, how effective Am I ineffective? Because when I'm being empathetic, they first of all, if you're a judge, you are thinking that you have arrived, nobody's gonna tell you what to do in terms of what phone's gonna work or not. Number two, oftentimes, they're in spaces where they can't have cameras, depending on what kind of courthouse they work in. Number three, do I want them to get the book or not? That flip phone is not scanning the QR code. And so I could easily have brought some books there that they could pay for right there. And I just didn't, because I was not thinking about what their needs were about mine.

Jason Feltman: 6:42

I love that perspective of just flipping it. So how many times do we as the average human, like, tend to go I can't believe they blah, blah, blah, blank, right. Like, it's the opposite. I can't believe I Why didn't I expect that? Like, because I didn't think about Yeah.

Dr. Nicole Price: 7:01

Because if when I thought about it, I'm like, of course they don't have in technology, we've seen this play out on television in like real life situations. And I can choose to be right or I can choose to be effective. Ooh,

Craig Pretzinger: 7:20

being right as in insufficient for being effective.

Dr. Nicole Price: 7:26

It's not even my wife

Craig Pretzinger: 7:27

all the time. It's your favorite line that I say.

Dr. Nicole Price: 7:32

I love talking points.

Craig Pretzinger: 7:33

Yeah. I don't say it when I'm right. Only when I'm wrong, then I say being right is inefficient for being effective. Yeah. Shut up, get out of here.

Dr. Nicole Price: 7:42

It's like, you know, I don't want to carry inventory. I don't want to go to a conference with all these books, and then have to come back with them. But the thing is, now that I've designed for the neediest, I'm actually selling more books, the QR code people have what they need, the people who don't have that have get what they need. It's a win win, right?

Craig Pretzinger: 8:03

Sale just given its you sell on what they want, and then give them what they need. And that's like, You got to give them that thing. Yeah,

Jason Feltman: 8:12

it's funny. I was, I was thinking about what you were saying, with the empathetic part towards our clients. And I would say as, as a whole insurance agents are, like, super empathetic of their clients. But not their staff.

Dr. Nicole Price: 8:31

Oh my gosh, so this is good to know. So schools are like that. Mm hmm. What do you mean, principals are very empathetic towards the children? The teachers and staff? Not so much. And so this is good. This is good to know. Because what that looks like is that leaders have to remember that how you treat your people is how they treat your people. Yeah, 100%. I will die on that hill. Like if you think that you can berate people and then they're going to show up in beautiful ways for your clients. I got some beachfront property to sell you right here in Missouri.

Craig Pretzinger: 9:12

Yeah, a good really good buddy of mine from actually I've known since kindergarten. But he worked with Tony Robbins for a long time and and I just lost my train of thought, What the heck, beachfront property

Dr. Nicole Price: 9:26

your leaders need to pour into their people in order for their people.

Craig Pretzinger: 9:32

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. He would always start the thing. Like when he did a talk, he'd say, Who Who is your number one client? And it's, you know, it's a trick question. Because the number one client is your staff. That's your number one client, because if you if you don't treat them, well, your clients aren't gonna be treated well. And so, and it is coming from that place of empathy, right? You have to understand them. You have to understand what that what drives them. What makes them tick, it's not money, usually.

Dr. Nicole Price: 9:57

And so, a decent It's not money. Yeah, if it

Craig Pretzinger: 10:01

was, if it was money, then they would have a business. Because they would see that that's the way to get to the level of just not, you know, this fixed amount. So, yeah. And then

Jason Feltman: 10:11

I think on the other side of that it's less empathy for their team, more empathy for their current clients, and less empathy for the market. Like, like, as in like, you know, the markets changed a lot since the old day of the way things were done. So a lot of agents are very, like hands on and stuff, but like, to your point, showing them how to do the like the mobile app, they're like, Ah, screw the mobile thing. Like, there's not they're not moving along with that. So they're not being so empathetic with, like, the changing climate of what's going on in the marketplace. You know,

Dr. Nicole Price: 10:47

yeah, then maybe it's not my responsibility to teach somebody something. But again, do you want to be right, or do you want to be effective? That's it absolutely taught people how to use video devices. I've taught people how to use the QR code. Is that my job? Absolutely not. But when I asked questions like, Hey, do you want to do video chat with your grand child, but tell me how to grandchild that you want to see your grandchild every day? That's a good reason to get a smartphone. And I got converted a couple judges right then to Oh, yeah, I think about that, you know? Yeah. Love it. And they can call you up on video. Yeah, well, time, FaceTime, Netflix phone will let you do that.

Craig Pretzinger: 11:34

No, although I did have some conversations with my folks on FaceTime. And it did not work very well. They couldn't. They're like, we can't see you. And I'm like, I don't know. I can see you. I don't know what the hell's.

Dr. Nicole Price: 11:48

You got to show me you got to show him when you're with them. Now, it

Craig Pretzinger: 11:50

wasn't being empathetic?

Dr. Nicole Price: 11:52

Well, I mean, kind of frustrating, because it's so second nature to us. Right? And that if nobody listens to anything else, I say that's what it is. That's when we need to lean into empathy even more. When you're like, I'm so surprised. That's your indication that you, you don't have enough proximity to even be able to be effective with that person. So how can you do a better job of like getting into their shoes?

Craig Pretzinger: 12:18

Interesting. So if you become frustrated or surprised by the thing, they have your instead of going get out of here, go, oh, take the opportunity. That opportunity has come

Dr. Nicole Price: 12:29

that's what I call it, get close, get close. And breathe. Okay. Pressure will go up.

Jason Feltman: 12:39

What are some things as a business owner, insurance agent, whatever, human? What are some things that would help us on this journey, just some exercises that I love the one that you just gave of, you know, helping

Dr. Nicole Price: 12:54

the empathy walk is my favorite one. My second favorite one is called empathetic listening. And, and so it sounds like that both of you are skilled in this. But sometimes we listen not to solve the problem. Sometimes we listen just because the person needs to talk.

Jason Feltman: 13:10

I'm working on that. Yeah, my wife.

Dr. Nicole Price: 13:15

The reason for listening empathetically is to benefit the speaker, not the listener. And sometimes, especially when somebody's views are drastically different from mine, I lean solidly into empathetic listening. You know, how you practice is watch a news station that you don't typically watch.

Craig Pretzinger: 13:38

Don't watch any of them.

Dr. Nicole Price: 13:41

Have fun? watch any of it. Give yourself like two minutes. You don't have to do it for a long time. But listen, again, you're not judging what's being said. You're just saying me sitting here listening right now is benefiting the person who's talking. And I suggest doing it in those difficult points. Because then it's a lot easier when you're doing it for somebody on your staff. When you've done it in the hardest ways. Yeah. I love that. That's so cool. Those are my those are my two favorite exercises. But you know, we just finished our empathy 14. And it's, it's something you can do anytime you want. But every August 1, I do 14 days where the real simple exercises, like publicly with anybody who follows me on any of my social channels. And, and so there's really Yeah, you just miss it. But there's but you can do it anytime. You don't need to be with me to do it. But that's just what I do it publicly. And there's simple things like, you know, imagine that you have a specific situation. And what challenges would that cause you if you were trying to get a job as an example. So you know how people say, oh, there's all these places to work. How are people out here with signs on the street? Well, let me take your ID, your address your car. Now apply for a job please. You

Craig Pretzinger: 15:00

know your money

Dr. Nicole Price: 15:02

and you smell because you can only shower in them, you're really drunk. And it's just like, Okay, what does that what does that look like to have to deal with that situation? And I don't expect anybody ever to be charitable if they don't want to be. And when you're judging, you're not helping.

Jason Feltman: 15:24

Totally. That is such a good perspective, because it's so hard to be around. It's funny. We all judge to some extent, like there's no getting around. judgments. Yeah. But like, with, yeah, it's so many times like you get in, like, when I know when I will get judgy. It's like, I'm doing the thing that I don't like, you know what I mean? It's like, ah, like, I'm doing the thing I'm complaining about?

Dr. Nicole Price: 15:50

Yes. Like, you know, what was hardest for me when I first started, like, really paying attention to empathy, is I would notice these naturally empathetic people, because remember, I'm not naturally empathetic. Who would be so judgmental of the rest of us? Like, how could you not consider? And so then I start judging them for judging. It's like this horrible cycle. It's just

Craig Pretzinger: 16:15

endless cycle.

Dr. Nicole Price: 16:17

She's got to stop it. And so I'm saying, Hey, my name is Nicole, the honorary insurance student. And I'm going first, and I'm just inviting a whole bunch of people to join me.

Craig Pretzinger: 16:27

Well, it's like, you have to set aside the ego, get the awareness that it's even happening, because most folks don't even realize that it's happening or that it exists, or that this is a thing, right? And then, oh, I'm aware, now I can be empathetic, I'll get results.

Dr. Nicole Price: 16:41

Yeah. And it's going to take practice. You know, in this microwave society, people were like, Oh, we're gonna do this, like three weeks, and then I got it. I've been working on this for a really long time, actively since 2014. And I will say that now people can't tell the difference. Like, I'll just be in some random grocery store line, and somebody will start pouring their heart out to me. And I used to say is, Do I have something printed on my forehead? Tell me about your problems. But someone told me once they said it's in the eyes, people can tell that you you care about what they have to say. So I wear sunglasses, no, just

Jason Feltman: 17:21

that works. That works.

Dr. Nicole Price: 17:24

Keeps it down.

Jason Feltman: 17:26

It's funny. So I have to tell you something funny before, before we wrap this up is it's so funny that you like when I first started in this insurance agency, we had a couple clients that were engineers, and it got to a point where we're selling it's like when you get an engineer, it is so hard to judge and this it's all numbers. It's all facts. And like, it's like, you can't you try to laugh you try Hey, you know, like, try to like, Nope, it's like numbers fax, boom. So

Craig Pretzinger: 18:03

send me the policy jacket, I'm gonna read it. Nobody reads that we use it for kindling, come on. kindling. Just kidding. But it's so funny

Jason Feltman: 18:13

because like, especially with our staff and stuff, the engineers that are the toughies they're gonna they're gonna find out because they don't care if you care about them, but they care about if you know all the information on the policy and like you went but

Craig Pretzinger: 18:31

that's how you're empathetic to an engineer I know.

Dr. Nicole Price: 18:37

Listen, I'm telling you I that was I resemble those comments and yeah, it's like who's the person who knows everything that their their car manual says like I know all these weird things my phone does it's like just but I will funny

Craig Pretzinger: 18:54

like Okay, so the agent led full circle right back to the beginning the your insurance agent was being empathetic but not empathetic to your

Dr. Nicole Price: 19:05

me that to you. She was showing up in the way that she valued, right? Understanding who I was at that moment and giving me what I needed.

Craig Pretzinger: 19:14

She was being nice, not empathetic. I've learned so much

Dr. Nicole Price: 19:18

but she was genuinely nice though. And I was like a fake nice and I was like this is fake nice. There's no way because

Craig Pretzinger: 19:27

you are not being nice

Jason Feltman: 19:28

not because you got the facts. You learned that she went through your social media you have you listed out all the stuff like came to you. Like this is all the stuff I've done now presented it to you. You'd have been like, alright, you did your

Dr. Nicole Price: 19:42

you did a research. Check.

Craig Pretzinger: 19:45

Not sure why but okay.

Dr. Nicole Price: 19:48

Yeah, yeah, that's a very astute point. So she did pivot a little bit right like she let me know she was incredible. So

Craig Pretzinger: 19:57

I don't know how she has the time to stock all the colors is like that

Dr. Nicole Price: 20:00

maybe she doesn't I don't know that she does, right? Like, maybe she doesn't maybe she is genuinely the famous orange stuff. Oh, the ones that show up on the insurance dudes.

Craig Pretzinger: 20:11

Most famous, most famous.

Jason Feltman: 20:15

Awesome, what's what's one thing that you want everyone to know before you leave. And then I want to know how people can get a hold of you and

Craig Pretzinger: 20:22

where they can buy the book and all the books and

Dr. Nicole Price: 20:25

you're not empathetic or not, you can learn to be empathetic. It is a muscle that you can dwell. It's like a muscle that you can build. Like everything else. If you practice, this is possible. And you can start wherever you want. And I give you the entire blueprint in the book, spark the heart, engineering, empathy in your organization. It's funny, I make a lot of fun of myself, I tell you how I get it wrong. But there are actionable tools for how to build empathy in yourself. And in your leadership team. If you're if your team is that large. And you can find out anything about the book or me at Dr. Nicole price.com. And that's my same name for all my social handles,

Craig Pretzinger: 21:08

Dr. Dr. Dr. Or Dr. Spelled out who would spell

Dr. Nicole Price: 21:13

it out what kind of pathology makes a person I'm just kidding.

Craig Pretzinger: 21:19

I'm just trying to be empathetic and put myself listeners.

Dr. Nicole Price: 21:25

Oh, so funny thing. My son is an entrepreneur and his business is Dr. Paul is spelled out.

Craig Pretzinger: 21:32

No way. And he said, Who would shorten it? It looks so unprofessional.

Jason Feltman: 21:40

Oh, you gotta tell him about this.

Dr. Nicole Price: 21:43

Well, it was coming out of my mouth and like, oh, gosh, I just said something bad about my own child. No, you

Jason Feltman: 21:48

gotta say, Well, you know what, you know, empathetic to you, this old guy, old insurance guy talk to you today?

Dr. Nicole Price: 21:57

Who was curious? Questions?

Craig Pretzinger: 22:00

You have one more question? What is it, I love it, because you're talking about practice, and, and then, like, gaining using that muscle memory and all that, like, one of the things that's been very helpful for me is meditation. And, and they you know, it's referred to as a practice, right? Because you don't just do it, and then you're done. It's, it's, and I noticed when I don't, I'm a little more scattered. The ADHD gets worse, right? Like, if I don't, I must meditate. And then, and that's for me, because, you know, the thoughts still keep coming, right. And the whole point is to not like push them out. But to notice them and not judge them and just kind of let them float away. And so, for me, it's been effective and interesting. I think that it's also been helpful for, for empathy, because it does help kind of sanitize the amount of judgment that comes out of this thing, right?

Dr. Nicole Price: 22:53

Listen, if you are scattered and unfocused, in general, it's going to be hard for you to be empathetic to yourself, which will also make it hard to be empathetic to other people. One of the 14 days is mindfulness. Practicing, you know, you don't have to do the whole transcendental meditation class if you don't want to, but just a moment of silence to just focus the mind

Craig Pretzinger: 23:18

is helping you for 10 seconds. Yeah, doesn't matter.

Dr. Nicole Price: 23:21

Some breathing. You want

Jason Feltman: 23:23

to know what oil and water is? What? It's an engineer with somebody with ADHD?

Craig Pretzinger: 23:30

No, but we're having a good it's like a perfect shower. But no,

Jason Feltman: 23:33

I say that because I ADHD my wife is very much an engineer like on the DISC profile. She's got zero. I do like, yeah, and I'm like 99. So talk about like, empathy, like, we're having to learn while we've been together for 20 years. We're having to we're still learning about how she thinks I do all this wacky stuff, because I don't think about it. Like, I'm not putting enough time into it. Right. But like, that's the way the ADHD brain works. And then she, and then like, I think about the ways that she does stuff is like, Dude, you're so cold. By the way, you come off, you know what I mean? It's kind of it's just so funny. Like,

Dr. Nicole Price: 24:18

is she a hi see? Oh, yeah.

Craig Pretzinger: 24:21

His wife and my wife have basically the same exact same profiles, disc profiles. And Jason, I basically have the exact same DISC profile. So it's very interesting. And we have basically the same relationships with our

Dr. Nicole Price: 24:35

that's funny. I'm D I almost equal. Yeah, we're Yeah. And then s, and then like,

Craig Pretzinger: 24:42

hardly any COC negative 50. Don't see. Yeah. So

Dr. Nicole Price: 24:46

I'm kind of not like other engineers in that way. My see is that yeah.

Jason Feltman: 24:51

Yeah, that is interesting. That is interesting. I would expect it to be a high SC

Craig Pretzinger: 24:55

that's why you're not. Are you still doing engineering?

Dr. Nicole Price: 24:57

Oh no, not at all. Oh no, when I started leading engineers, I realized my brain didn't work exactly. Like, engineers.

Craig Pretzinger: 25:07

You just have a very smart brain. So you went to engineering, but then you're like, I can't deal with this.

Dr. Nicole Price: 25:14

Yeah, it's a difference between being able to do something and loving to do something. And I was able to do that. I didn't love it in a lot of my ego was taught caught up in Hey, I'm an engineer, or whatever. And you see, I haven't let it go. Engineering empathy here, this.

Jason Feltman: 25:34

Is it. Okay, money. Okay, you can do that. It's so funny what the ego holds on to. It's like, so self defeating. It's so many.

Craig Pretzinger: 25:45

And it's the wolf in sheep's clothing, too, because it's telling you that it's protecting you. But it's not. It's harming you.

Dr. Nicole Price: 25:52

Yeah, I think that's good. I think there's people about it, right. Like, let me just tell you, the engineering stories about lacking empathy, I think they're hilarious. And I would love to hear from folks if they think they're hilarious, too. Because today, I can't even imagine that I used to show up in those ways.

Jason Feltman: 26:10

Yeah, I think I have a heart for it. Because again, my wife is more like that. And we're two ends of the spectrum. So I it's like it is it's oil and water. And it's just fun. Like, everybody takes everybody's actions completely incorrectly. You don't I mean, like, have no idea where each other is coming from. So you do need to practice empathy. Yeah, like it. It does help.

Dr. Nicole Price: 26:37

It does help. And sometimes I can't prove it to you. And that's okay. Some people learn pleasantly by reading a book or following somebody on social media. And there are other people like me, who had to learn painfully going through a major grief event. But I do think we all learn, we just get to choose how. Yeah,

Jason Feltman: 26:54

yeah. Great point. Well, Dr. Nicole, this was awesome. Thank you so much. Everybody grabbed spark the heart. And I love Craig's question, where can you get it on the internet just Googling it? Joe?

Craig Pretzinger: 27:07

I get there on my flip phone.

Dr. Nicole Price: 27:10

You can call me and you can give me your address. But if you got a regular phone, I shouldn't say look at that regular. You see what I just did there? To get it on Amazon Barnes and Noble. target.com. Anywhere books are sold.

Craig Pretzinger: 27:28

off target. They still have target. Wow, I've been there a long time.

Dr. Nicole Price: 27:34

I saving money then.

Craig Pretzinger: 27:38

It's the after COVID. Like I haven't gone to a lot of stores anymore. Everything why? Because everything gets delivered to people. Now. I don't like them. We want to

Dr. Nicole Price: 27:51

be in line with them telling you about their life stories like me.

Jason Feltman: 27:55

Let's preface this with Craig's been all over the world in the last year and barely at work. So he's getting out there. He's not working out there. I was in

Craig Pretzinger: 28:05

Portugal for a month and then I was in Hawaii for a few weeks. So Maui though. Those poor people.

Dr. Nicole Price: 28:15

The pictures are awful. It's Dude,

Craig Pretzinger: 28:17

that was on the waves that were part of that whole thing. But I was on kawaii. So luckily, but we got the waves or I almost died from that. So

Dr. Nicole Price: 28:26

all right, well, like that. I know that way to close it. DiSC Profile eyes do not like to close on a sad note. So

Jason Feltman: 28:35

I don't know where that came from. That's an open now we have an open loop. All right. All right. All right. Dr. Cole, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. It's a subject that I think everybody needs to think more about.

Craig Pretzinger: 28:51

Alright. Thanks for having me. Thank you.