SPEAKER_04 0:00

I love insurance, but it gets hard in the minutiae.

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Business owner has so much on their plate, it's like I don't want to deal with looking up the rules to this one or this one.

SPEAKER_04 0:10

Internal joke in our agency for absolutely everything is you know what you have to do, you have to sell more insurance.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Home and auto will be gone because why would a carrier need an agent?

SPEAKER_04 0:20

I do think people still want there's a certain segment of the population that's always gonna want to talk to a person. Yeah, but they're all the next steps is to connect it. I mean, the reason we changed our management system is to be able to connect it to our management system.

SPEAKER_02 0:33

If you can build it really big, I would say in like three, four years, I mean, if we're getting to the point where they can service, it's almost buy our interest now, buy our profitable interest. I am great. I am A. We are agents. We are insurance.

SPEAKER_04 1:04

The wildest thing that ever happened to me was shortly after we opened our agency, we had a giant H04 claim turned in by a guy that came to the office, walk-in last minute before a holiday and wanted an HO4 policy. And my husband kindly wrote it up for him, only to have him turn a claim in three weeks later for the contents of his entire apartment. Apparently, someone backed a U-Haul truck up and took everything that he owned. No one saw a thing. He was on the third floor of the apartment. But luckily, to provide to claims, he had all of his very expensive jerseys in his tape collection laid out and recorded with photos that he told claims my husband had recommended that he do to have proof of all of his belongings. So the claims manager at the time assured me that an old girlfriend would would retaliate and we would end up getting that claim uh subrogated against. But unfortunately, it's been 25 years and no money back from that guy. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Wow. So they paid it?

SPEAKER_04 2:16

They paid it. They paid it. Yes. He was definitely a professional. Yes, so hard lesson to learn. But I'm Michelle O'Connor, and I own O'Connor Insurance Associates in beautiful Charlotte, North Carolina, and I am an insurance dudette.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Boom! Boom! That was flawless, by the way. That opened damn good.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

And I screwed up and interjected.

SPEAKER_03 2:41

I'm like, oh, what am I doing? I just broke the rules. That's when you know it's a good story.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

I know it's a good story. So that was at the beginning. Yes. That was 25 years ago. So that's wild. I can't imagine with our carrier that if somebody did that, that they would it would work out.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

Oh, they tried.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

They would send the whole unit over.

SPEAKER_04 3:02

They did. They tried. They did, and they did a lot of things by mail so that they could try to get him for mail fraud if he lied on something, but they had no proof.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Mail fraud. Oh my gosh. That's how they get the mafia people with mail fraud. What carrier was it?

SPEAKER_04 3:19

Yeah, eerie insurance. And and to Erie's credit, they are, you know, they look for ways to pay claims. They're the partner that you want because they take care of your customers. Um, and they really tried to make sure that this one was legit before they paid it.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Crazy.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Yes, that is eerie. But uh Ting, we got some dad jokes in the house. Yeah. All day, every day. You beat me to it. Well, good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

So I I have one for you. Let's let's say you're at a barbecue. How would you introduce yourself? What would you say?

SPEAKER_04 3:54

Um, about what I do for a living or just who I am. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

How it all began.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

How it all began. So I was actually hired by Erie Insurance. That's how it began. A neighbor of mine told me to go apply for a job. I had no idea what I was getting into. And Erie trained me for nine months and then transferred me to North Carolina. And I got to open up the western part of the state for them and look for agents. So great job. I loved it. I love, I love working with agents and very passionate about just giving back to our agency force. So my husband was working for DSS and he decided he had had that was a hard road. And um he decided to open the agency Scratch. So he did. We moved to Charlotte. He opened it scratch. I stayed with the carrier a few more years, and then 25 years later, here we are.

unknown 4:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

That was awesome.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

North Carolina is beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

I was just gonna say I like North Carolina.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Yeah, I went to a Billy Strings concert last year, I think last year, or beginning of this year in North Carolina. It was a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

I saw Billy Strings was coming, yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:57

Yeah, oh, you should have gone. It's a lot of fun. You would have saw Craig.

SPEAKER_04 5:00

Yeah, I would have. It would have been great.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

Craig, is that where you lost your phone?

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Um no, that was in New Orleans. Oh geez.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Oh geez.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

I mean, funny story, I'm happy to tell it. I don't think it's I don't think it's been brought up.

SPEAKER_03 5:17

This is outstanding and has nothing to do with any part of this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Yeah, do you want to hear it? Maybe it's a good hook for absolutely. So uh it we got to the we got to the it was the New Year's Eve show for for uh Billy Strays in New Orleans. Um and we got there, we got there pretty early because they had a little you know vendor fair thing. You walk around and and have fun. Um and I'm like, I need to go to the restroom. So you know they had all these porta potties, but they had the ones up front, like right in the middle of the crowd, and then they had the ones farther away that weren't gross. And and I'm like, I'll go over those ones. So I went over, nobody was there, and I walk in, and it was a little chilly out, and I I um I'm you know, go to go to use the restroom, and and I'm standing there and I did I like did something, some movement, and all of a sudden I hear this clunk splash, and I'm like, I'm like, what was that? And I'm like, huh, that's weird. And I look around, I can't see it, it's pitch black, and and I I go, huh. I go, hey Grayson, because my my son-in-law is around there somewhere, so I yell, and he's like, Yeah, and I go, Did you just throw something at this? And he goes, What are you talking about? And then I start going, Oh, oh no, was that my phone? And sure enough, it had I had put it in my top pocket for some reason. It bounced out and landed it in there. And I like I I got out of there when I realized what happened. I just sat on the ground. Like I went from I was so excited and so happy to you know the ultimate low because not only is it my phone, but it's my wallet that's attached to the phone that has all my cards, my ID, everything, right? And I'm like, I can't like what you can't do. And what do you do?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah, there's nothing.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

So we're scrambling around. My my son and and and son-in-law, they ran up to the front, and and you know, nobody gives, nobody cares, right? They're just like, whatever. And then I'm like, look, um I think I will, I don't care. I'll just leave it, we'll figure it out, whatever. You know, I'm gonna have to go through security, do all that at the airport. And and then then they're like, no, my son's like, no, you're gonna be in a bad mood all night. And I'm like, well, there's no alternative. And then they end up coming back with a bunch of trash bags, and they go, Look, it's only this deep, right? You know, like two inches deep. And I'm like, and I'm thinking, okay, that's better, right? Like, it's not it's not and it and it really was hardly used. So, like, that's an important piece of it. It was one of the ones up front. Like, those things looked like it was it was terrible. So, you know, we ended up, I'm like, well, hey, you know, you guys can do it. You guys are young and strong, and they're like, oh no, no way, you're doing it. We're gonna we're gonna videotape, you know, and this whole thing. So I did I put like five bags around my arm, we taped it, and then just you know got in there, grabbed it, and and I mean, and and everything worked. It was like, I'd like, I'm not touching this till later. We're gonna like soak it in alcohol and everything. I mean, and here it is.

SPEAKER_04 8:43

So after I'll tell you about the time my terrible towel got a swirly in the Panther Stadium.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

So same, same type of situation.

SPEAKER_04 8:54

Yes, but she survived and she's still thriving.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

You know, I mean, it's it could all be clean, all can be clean. Panthers, huh?

SPEAKER_04 9:05

Well, I'm I'm a diehard Steelers fan, so she was in the Panthers stadium, but was in my back pocket and came up missing. Those terrible towels are really important, really important, and it's an authentic old terrible towel, so there was no way I was leaving it. No way. Thank God for best friends.

unknown 9:28

Thank God.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

All right, you have an independent agency, you've had it for 25 years. What started like I would love to know the story of that because I know you have it with your husband, your mother. You have you guys have gone through a lot over the last uh you know, 25 years, not to mention you have an agency that's very modern. So we'll get into that as well. Sure. But what got you in this crazy business?

SPEAKER_04 9:56

Yeah, so I mean, getting hired by your insurance is what got me into the business. And then, you know, in in corporate America, especially in the late 90s, the only way to move up was to move. And it became clear to us that we wanted to stay in North Carolina, and so we decided that the best option for us was going to be to do our own thing at that point. So neither of us had anyone in the business. We just started the agency scratch out of a spare bedroom. Um, definitely a hard way to do it, learned so much over the years. Um, and was fortunate to have so many just incredible mentors along the way. I mean, insurance agents are so sharing and they they share the best of their secrets, the worst of their secrets so that you don't make the mistakes. And super fortunate to have those kind of people along the way with us. Um, about five years ago, we had a real heart-to-heart with ourselves and we're like, is this gonna be a lifestyle business or are we gonna put the pedal to the metal and you know, try to really grow it into something bigger? And it's not in our nature to just sit back and chill. So we didn't. Um, we are at the end of our five-year mark. We're super close to doubling the size of the agency. It may take us an extra month to do so, but we're almost there. And that was on just commission revenue, not including profit sharing. So um super proud of where we're at. Still disappointed we didn't hit the end of it by the end of December, but um, it's proud of where we're at. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

That's incredible. How many people do you are do you have uh working?

SPEAKER_04 11:23

So, including my husband and I, we have two VAs, and there's um 10 of us total, including my VAs. So cool.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

Yeah. So I want to know how so when you was it just you and your husband when you first started? It was, yes. And then uh it sounds like you were it was just you two, right? Like there were there did you have any employees at that time?

SPEAKER_04 11:45

No, we did not. I think it took us about four years, five years, almost five years. Um, when we hired, we had one employee that was with us for a little while, and then she moved on to do something different. Um, and then when we hired our next employee, uh, he's actually still with me. So he celebrated 21 years with us um this year, which is incredible. He helped us build the agency, truly, every bit of it. So that is awesome. Super special person.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

So what you don't hear about that very often in the in this world.

SPEAKER_03 12:18

Well, so that first milestone, it sounded like you guys were doing it yourself, and it was more of that lifestyle type agency. Very much. Um, what was that next step, like mental shift and and um how did you get through that?

SPEAKER_04 12:31

Yeah, I think there was there was a point in time prior to that. We we had two kids, we got married and and didn't have our children for a little while. So then the kids came and that takes your attention, you know, off the prize a little bit as well, as we're just trying to figure out how to balance it all, especially with both of us in the business um and trying to take care of little people at home. But once we got them to a place where they were more self-sustaining, um, then it then it really was like, what are we gonna do with this? Like we're we are we gonna blow it up? Are we happy doing what we're doing? I had a real heart-to-heart with myself. There was a dark moment that I wasn't sure I wanted to continue doing this. Um, I love insurance, but it it gets hard in the minutiae. And especially when you're in that weird growth place where you're doing it all, we bootstrapped everything. So just, you know, I was 25 when we started the agency. So I mean it was it was just a lot of minutiae. And we got to that place and I had to take a step back. I had a really great business coach who was helping me, and she's like, you gotta find the joy, and if you can't find the joy, then you know what your answer is. So I took some time, and that was really to find the joy, and found the joy and decided that it was time to put the gas to it, that it wasn't just fun sitting in the minutiae. That was the problem. You don't want to just sit in the minutiae. So that was the impetus of it.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Uh yeah, or you're just sitting there because it's easy to come in and just let the day happen, right? Without a plan, because enough stuff happens all day long. But really, as an owner, you're not getting much done if you're doing that. And it takes a while to accept that. Like, I'm working hard, but are you? I mean, yeah, you're working hard, but are you doing the right kind of hard work?

SPEAKER_04 14:12

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Right. And so it's real interesting. So when you threw down the gauntlet, you say you're gonna double it. What were like two or three of the levers that that you started to pull that really made the big difference?

SPEAKER_04 14:24

Um, we were always we've always been data driven, but I think I cleaned that up a lot and was like, you know, what are the very key metrics that we need? We I had read the book Traction, and even though we were T small little agency, we decided to apply the principles of that. And that really helped us a lot. We kind of had to meld it to make it our own, but that helped us a lot because it's in your face all the time. And the most important thing I did was the most simplistic. Um, my husband and I looked at where we wanted the agency to be in 15 years, and I used an Excel spreadsheet to back into what we had to do to get there. That was the easiest thing ever, but everything else trickled down from that.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

That is awesome. Did you get an integrator or did you just do it yourself?

SPEAKER_04 15:12

So I have been doing it myself. We actually have an implementer helping us with our annual plan for 2026. That's the first time that we'll have an implementer is right now. Um, and he's not even hired for good, unfortunately, just for this annual plan, and then we're gonna see how it goes.

unknown 15:30

Cool.

SPEAKER_04 15:31

Yeah, I'm super excited about it. I think it'll be a great experience for us, and I'm still relieved I don't have to lead the annual planning. So it'll be great to have someone else to push us along.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Yeah, Craig. I know I I I miss those up. It's so funny when he came up with that. It's like, dude, why did you do two words that are so similar for a very similar position? But, anyways, um, the implementer, like Craig and I did the same thing, and when we uh we did need that third party, like it really does help to have a third party, even though you know you can do it yourself or you know, hire an integrator, whatever. Like it's it's so nice to have that third party that kind of like you just have that outside perspective, that impartial uh they're not you know subjective to anything, they're pretty objective.

SPEAKER_04 16:23

So I'm excited about that because I think we can get in our own way a lot, and so it'll be good to have somebody they can be like, nah, that's not really a rock. I need you to do better with that. Um, or you didn't really complete that. You know, that's so I'm excited about that. I think that'll be helpful to get us on track. Um, we changed our agency management system in July, which has just been more mud than I can ever possibly have dreamed of.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 16:53

So what did you switch from? We switched from Applied Epic.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

To which one?

SPEAKER_04 17:00

To a system called BT Core. It's Salesforce based and it's got a plug-in that uh insurance agents created it. Wow, the plug-in. Oh, cool. So yeah, I mean, we really just wanted to be free. Free. I mean, we want to be free. We wanna we want to plug in with who we want, connect with who we want, have our processes the way we want. Um, so you know, to get there though, the migration is just not pretty. It's it's a horrible process. It's like an ugly divorce.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

It's like going from the filing cabinets to a computer system.

SPEAKER_04 17:32

It is, it is, except for at least then you had like a tangible file to be like, yes, this is Jason's file, and yes, it came into the system. When it's all electronic, it's a wing in a prayer.

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Like push the button, is it really going over there, even though it says migrating? You're like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 17:49

Yes, I don't know. I still don't know for sure. Yeah, lots of checks and balances.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

That's awesome. So, and then I noticed that you put um in uh when you were talking to Emily, the uh you said something about the gap in the game. So, are you a Benjamin Hardy fan?

SPEAKER_04 18:09

I am, and I'm actually in the middle of the gap in the game. Um, and you know, the first couple of chapters, it just shapes you know your thought process quickly. And so that that big audacious goal to double the agency that we're close to, but we haven't hit, it hit me that I wasn't celebrating where we were because we've come so far and done such a great job, and we're not celebrating that. So trying to take a moment to celebrate that.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Awesome. Oh, I wish I had a little the little sound panel. I'd go celebrate.

SPEAKER_04 18:42

That's good. I need to remember that theme music.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yeah, I mean it it's you know, like it's so we I think that us humans, like we're so hard on ourselves all the time, and then like these big wins come and we just like keep going. Just like what's the next goal? It's like gotta celebrate.

SPEAKER_04 18:59

I'm already worried about how we're doubling again. That's my that's where I'm at. I'm already like, oh, we gotta double again. Where are we going?

SPEAKER_02 19:05

You know how to, right?

SPEAKER_04 19:07

I hope.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Yeah, but do we get it's definitely like the expectation becomes the like normal, and anything less than the expectation you're hard on yourself about, and you're not celebrating the you know, all the wins that you're doing, you're just it's like this is the way it should be, right? So and of course you're gonna hit some setbacks and then you're just beat yourself up over that, and it's so easy to stay in that spot where you're feeling uh very like behind.

SPEAKER_04 19:37

Very much. And I think highly motivated people that just comes with the territory that's just built into the fabric of who you are, and so I don't I don't even know that I realized I was doing it until you kind of get called out about it. Like, that makes a little bit of sense.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

How did you find the joy going back to the earlier?

SPEAKER_04 19:59

Yeah, so I am not a journal person like at all. My um, my best girlfriend was helping me clean out some things, and we found a journal that had one page written in it, so that pretty much sums up how much I like to journal. But the coach bought me a journal that was just a gratitude journal, and it was the you know, find the three things every day. And so I challenged myself to try to find three things that I liked about the business every day. And then, you know, over a couple of week period, it starts to become obvious that it is the framing, it is what you think of it. Um, and then the imagery of like, am I gonna walk away and what that looks and feels like, and kind of getting real with yourself about that. You know, you shut the lights off, you pack up the file cabinets, whatever you're doing. How does that feel? What's next? And that didn't feel good. I didn't like that. So the combination of the two propelled me to change my plan.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 20:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

But I think a lot of which is doubling up again.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

It is well, now it is, yes. And you know, a lot of business owners get in that spot, nobody wants to talk about it. So that's why I share it because I think it's normal, especially like when you get into some hard stuff that you are outside your comfort zone, you're learning, you don't know what you're doing because it's a place you've never been before, and you have to retool.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Yeah. Well, and we get like we do so many things, or we do we get to the point where we're so good at it that then even though maybe it's working, it's now boring, right? So it's like, ah, how can I screw up what's working really well? Yes. Is is what you know, you get in there, oh let's just retool this a little bit. It's like, but it works, you know.

SPEAKER_04 21:37

So just it's I'm famous for that. Just mixing it up for the sake of mixing it up because I'm bored.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

So yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a it's a it's a trait of a good ADHD person. Start making drama and the things that work. Um yeah, Craig and I are part of a few uh groups with with heavy. Hitter business owners, and it just seems the same, like across the board. Everybody kind of gets sick of their business. And you know, I like I've and I've thought about this a lot over the years because I I I a hundred percent get sick of everything. There's I've realized there's no way that I can do the same thing for the rest of my life and be happy doing it. Like I just always need to change. I need to at least be in a position. That's when we found EOS, and then it was like, okay, like if you know, if you're working if you're not working in the business, it gives you the opportunity to not feel like that so you can do other things, and and so that was a big help. But like um just realizing that uh you know, like for me, it was like being inside of it and doing all the like being a cog in the system. Like, I'm gonna be bored at some point and then I'm gonna screw up the system that has to do something all the time. Um but yeah, Craig and I are part of in every I feel like every entrepreneur feels that about their business at some time and thinks about going to the other side. And then we've seen a lot of I mean, I've seen a lot of insurance agents because of you know all the different craziness that's happening with carriers or you know, out here in California, it's madness, but then they'll switch to like a different industry and they're like, Wow, this is really hard. Yeah, like you know what I mean? And it's like, dude, why don't you just do the same thing that you knew, maybe a little differently, or like you know what I mean? Like we like and then you look at um somebody like uh Warren Buffett or anybody that really made like you know, the hundred millionaires or billionaires, they do the same thing and and it really compounds over time. And it doesn't compound for a while, like 10, 20, 30 years, they're still doing the boring thing, but they're consistent with it and they're stacking the uh uh their lever leverage in that that uh you know one thing. So it's like yeah, it's like us business owners, we need to just kind of really keep those guardrails up and keep doing the thing finding the joy in it because literally you could all businesses are the same, they have the same uh, you know, even like EOS, they they have the different functions, right? Like setting up the the um what is it, LMS or whatever, right? Like the different department. But it's all the same, all businesses have the same functions. So it's like it doesn't matter what business you get into, you're still gonna have to deal with accounting. Like you're still gonna have to deal with customer service in some fashion. So it's like just keep doing the same thing. Like, and if you don't want to be, if you want to feel less uh like in the weeds and that that pressure, then hire somebody else to do it.

SPEAKER_04 24:52

Yeah, absolutely. Especially in a residual income business where really time is your friend if you just can consistently put in the work and put in the the time and not get bored and screw things up, then you you got everything on your side.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

Yeah. 100%. How is it out there in uh North Carolina?

SPEAKER_04 25:12

So we have, I mean, compared to the problems you've got going on, my friend, there is just nothing wrong in this. In all seriousness, personal alliance has taken a giant rate hit, um, mainly because we have some interesting rules and laws in our state. Um, so personal alliance has taken some rate increases. I believe 26 is gonna level out, but it's been three years of really hard conversations with clients. And again, nothing compared to what y'all have had, but you know, 20 and 30 percent rate increases are are not the norm for North Carolina. So I hope that that's gonna level out. Commercial has not been nearly as impacted. So it's been more steady as you go. I would feel I feel like it's probably a little bit softening on the way to softening for sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

So it is is your agency.

SPEAKER_04 26:01

So do you have specialists in each in each function, like a specialist for commercial or specialist for home, specialist for auto, or how do you we're just split into commercial and personal, and we do have one producer that's doing we added Medicare to our mix last year, and he's doing Medicare and life insurance. Um, yeah, so that that those are our only splits in the agency. Um, I've got a niche I'm working on right now. You know, again, one of those things that people tell you all the time that you need to do, and we know we need to do it, and I don't do it. So that was one of my things this year was to get that kicked off.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

What do you think the big fear is for people to niche down?

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Saying no to all the other business, yeah, and finding finding a line. I mean, even and I'm I told my account exec we were having this conversation yesterday. I'm the worst one, I'm the guilty one. I want to help everybody. So there's just like I have no no in my vocabulary. And so from the $300 bop straight on up, I want to help everybody. And we're at a place where we got to make some decisions about how that's gonna go in order to scale appropriately. We're not gonna be able to scale if we don't. So I know that in my head, but my heart still hasn't gotten wrapped around that.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

What niche are you guys going into?

SPEAKER_04 27:12

So we already do a ton of contractors. That's like a natural niche for us. It's the people that we really love to do business with. So I'm just slicing and dicing that a little bit more and slicing it into a landscaper niche with the goal of being able to repeat it in the other trades, you know, by proving that this one, the marketing and things that I'm doing are gonna work for this one.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

That's awesome. Do you do you ever look at your since you have so many different lines, do you ever look at your book of business and and and look at the lifetime value of like a client? Yes. And like what policies that they have and and how to acquire like those those ones?

SPEAKER_04 27:47

Yes. I mean, that's that's what landed us into the contracting space to begin with. We just had so many of them already, and then further down into the landscaping because we had quite a few of those as well. So we have a great landscaper that's been with us 15 years that just did an awesome case study with me. So we're um just in the tail end of wrapping that all up so we can put that together. We have a video and a blog with that to share. So some good stuff with SEO, hopefully, and we'll hopefully be after the races. We'll see.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Super great. So I always find it interesting when a um when partners or you know spouses are are in business together. Because for me, it would be impossible. I know Jason, he's like impossible, like it just we'd kill each other, right? Like I by she's whatever, right? Like it's just it just it wouldn't work out well, which is fine. Um, but I'm curious how how have you made that work? Are there rules of it? Like, let's say you strongly disagree on something, like you just both you're you're hardcore on this thing, he's the other way. How do you resolve that? What's the without glow, you know?

SPEAKER_04 29:03

Yeah, I mean, it and it's we're both like super type A personalities. There's two keys then that helps. So it does help. I have taken more of an operational marketing role, and he's done our business sales. So we uh I operate like one, you know, uh agency owner with two of us, which is great because we do have that ability. Like he doesn't have to worry about any of the HR components, and I don't have to worry about business sales. So we've we've got that going for us. Um, there's definitely been a lot of things we've come to blows about, though, with strong personalities. I mean, that can be as some simple as where the where the toilet paper roll is going if you dig your heels in, right? So um it has taken us a while to get on the other side of that. Generally speaking, though, because we have the same vision for where the agency's going, we can sort it out because of that. Because it's either, you know, that's gonna get us closer to it or it's not either there's a budgeting issue, like I'm famous for there being no budget. And he's like, no, there is a budget, you know, that's the unlimited money tree in the backyard. So he's he's good at keeping the rails on for me. And and I will gradually see that he's right with that. That unless I've got a solid plan and can come back and say, no, this is why it makes good sense. Um, and then that's how we've been able to resolve it because we have the same goal in mind at the end. Was it better for you after EOS? Definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Because I, yeah, it sort of makes it more objective, right? There's here's a structure, it's this way. We both agree we're gonna do it the way that it says, so that's gonna solve the argument.

SPEAKER_04 30:35

Yes, and it also solved even like accountability because it's really difficult to hold your spouse accountable. I mean, I'll make excuses for him, right? I mean, it's it's you know, he was busy with the kids, he's coaches, whatever. I'll make excuses why I didn't do something. But he sees it in his own, you know, site, it's on his own scorecard. It either got done or it didn't. It's not subjective. So the that has helped a lot.

SPEAKER_00 30:59

No, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Like as uh somebody with ADHD, again, I will bring that up, but um you think like you want to be free, but you don't want to have rules. Like you think that it's gonna make things harder because now there's a bunch of rules and stuff like that, but then when you have them or structure, and you can even say this about your sales department or any other type of a position in the business, once there's like rules, values, and like a structure to it, it's super simple because then all you have to do is manage the beliefs and then or not manage the beliefs, but you uh encourage the beliefs and then manage the behaviors, right? So and it's like makes it so much easier. It does make it so much easier.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

And I don't like rules either, not at all. And I don't like to hold I don't like to micromanage and have to hold people's feet to the fire. So that's a challenge for me. So the scorecard makes it easy because the team knows if they're on track, they know if they've done what they're supposed to do.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

Yep, yeah, it's so it's great to make something else be the bad guy, right? Like it, hey, look, you know, we just follow this thing, and the only way to make sure that everything works is just to follow this thing. So let's go look at the thing and see what the situation, you know. Oh, it says we have to do it this way. Like I I remember I had a hard time when people would get all mad about claims back when I was on the phones and all that, you know. And somebody took a mentor told me, they go, No, don't don't try to argue about the claim, just say, Hey, you know what? That I hey, I'm on your side, let's let's review the policy. And so we'd go in and look at oh you oh man, it isn't covered, you know. And so we'd go in and look at the language, and now the policy's the bad guy, not right. Yeah, that makes some sense. That helped a lot, yeah. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

Yeah, it's definitely a game changer. Like when I first started, I remember just holding salespeople accountable. It's like you guys you because salespeople are always a, they say they make more calls than they do. They say that all these people, like I got all these people that I'm gonna close, right? So it's like it's like, dude, what what's up with sales? You haven't had a sale in a couple days. Like, oh, I got you know, five, I'm working on five sales right now, and then tomorrow it's like nothing closes. And it's like, yeah, I'm working on the five, it's like it's all feeling based. It's like we're we're not even tracking anything. It was horrible. But yeah, once you have scorecards, it's like now you can it's like make this many calls, do this many quotes, this many follow-ups, we're good.

SPEAKER_04 33:40

Right. You can back into the numbers, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:44

Yep, down to the dial.

SPEAKER_04 33:45

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

I mean, that's what and I think that's for a long time, like it's all it was always, oh, we want to write a bunch, but we didn't really track the activity. We were focused on on the goal, right? On the on the amount, but that doesn't get you right, right? You're like, oh, we didn't do it. It's like, but then you work the numbers and you get to the dials, you're like, a hundred thousand dials? How the hell are we gonna do a hundred? And then it's like, oh, we do it. If we do the hundred thousand dials, we get to that goal, right? It just is gonna take a lot, it's X this many people or whatever, right? Like it everything can be done, but you need the numbers and you and you can't eject, like I would eject because I'd go, Oh, well, a hundred, that's not gonna happen. So, whatever. It we'll just keep doing it, it'll work. But it it does that's right. You you have to follow the math. Yeah, that's right. And it's it's it's remarkable how it it works when you follow the math.

SPEAKER_04 34:37

So, what was the biggest game changer for y'all when you hired the implementer prior? Were you doing it yourselves first and then hired the implementer?

SPEAKER_03 34:44

No, we hired the implementer. We actually really needed it at the time. We had a uh a manager, CEO type um operator, and we were all just we were Craig and I mainly were creating a ton of chaos. You know what I mean? Like create creating a lot of sales at the time, but like a lot of chaos. And uh when he came in, it just we were all a little overwhelmed, I think, like Craig, me, and then uh our CEO. And it just put rules to everything, and it really, you know, it's kind of like the um the the Benjamin Hardy thing of the like uh it's more like the the we needed to cut out a ton of stuff. Yes, you know what I mean, like the 80-20 principle. Yes. So uh that really helped us cut out a lot of the mess at the time. Nice, but it was nice to have.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

And for context, it was for this business, not for the agency. So we didn't have we were yeah, we were doing it for teledudes and and insurance dudes. And I mean interestingly, we had brought we had brought on somebody who was very much like us, and we needed somebody that was not like us, more organ, you know, more operational and can can do the thing. So uh, you know, as as the as the role started to to develop from you know the meetings that we were having with uh with our that's the implementer, right? That's the or who's the who's the implementer and who's the implementer's outside.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Okay, yeah. So as we're having those meetings, then it was it was you know, you could see that he was going, oh well, I don't want to do that. And all of a sudden it was like, oh, and he he eventually just self-selected out for the most part. That was helpful.

SPEAKER_04 36:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

It was helpful. I mean, and it was good.

SPEAKER_03 36:48

He's actually my really good friend. I talk to him all the time. I've known him since I was really young, so um, it was actually a really good thing, and it yeah, it was really good.

SPEAKER_04 36:58

Good.

SPEAKER_03 36:59

It was good, he's cool.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

Good, that's good to hear.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

But I don't think that that would have ended well without that, to be totally honest. Right, because it was it was there was a lot of friction at the time. So yeah, that was actually way more of a blessing in my anxiety.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Yeah, the the tension builds and the resent, you know, there's resentment starts forming, and then it's like ah, you know, human.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

I want to know, I want to know what did you do in the like what are the big pillars that you set in place for the last five years to be able to double uh your business in the last five years?

SPEAKER_04 37:42

So knowing exactly what we had to do every year was one of them. We knew the growth rate that we had to do every year. Um, and then I backed into it. So I actually just did exactly what Craig just said. I um decided how many leads we what our closing ratio was and went backwards to how many leads do you need in order to hit those numbers? And then what's our average retention? And it was actually pretty easy to do. So that was one of the big pillars was just getting real clear on what we had to do. Um, and then it became obvious that we needed more leads. I mean, our our internal joke in our agency for absolutely everything is you know what you have to do, you have to sell more insurance. So, you know, my husband wants a new boat. Well, you know what you have to do, you have to sell more insurance. So I mean, joking aside, we have to sell some more insurance, right?

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:31

So that was a big piece of it. Um, we overstaffed our team. That was an interesting pillar because we're a best practices agency, have been for a long time, but our payroll is not in line with their recommendations right now, but that's because we're growing. So we brought on a gal that I just adore that had no experience. And so we knew she needed a little bit of room to get her feet wet and get a solid foundation so that we could continue the trajectory we were on, and that was very helpful. We actually brought on someone in commercial around the same time for the same reason. So we were we have been overstaffed a little bit, which I we have capacity. I love that. I'm not constantly feeling like we're we're not capable of doing or servicing the clients that we wrote. So that was really helpful as well. Um, and I in and besides that, was really getting clear on the sales. Um, we have a lot of people that are great internal good customer service people. And we now the next push is we've got to hire a sales team. So we have some people that sell, but we need a sales team, particularly in the business side of things. So that's the next growth goal is to help us get there, we're gonna have to do something different, and that's one of the things.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

I was just gonna say, what's the next for now? What are you doing for the next five years?

SPEAKER_04 39:47

Yeah, that's I mean, that's probably the biggest thing is that I know we need that. I know that's a hole that we have to fill, um, especially if we're ever going to be out of the day-to-day operations of the agency, because we are not right now, collectively, um, my hubby and I. Um, our son, we have a 19-year-old that is a sophomore at Appalachian State, and he decided to go into the risk management program. So he interned with us this summer, and all of a sudden we may have a perpetuation, you know, plan that we had never dreamed when we started without any kiddos at all, that we would have. So that is that is giving me a ton of motivation to leave it in the state that I want him to take over it. Um, and then also the runway is a little bit longer because I want to make sure that he's solid. I don't want to leave him high and dry when we step aside. So that's giving me some good motivation.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

So that that opens the door for the next conversation, which I think is is interesting. Is the runway long for us insurance agents as somebody who's been involved in a lot of technology and doing, you know, plugging in the AI and using it in your agency? Yes. Do you think that what do you think is gonna happen?

SPEAKER_04 41:01

Um, I I mean, I believe it'll change. When I started, you know, we had dial up internet, so just put that in for we were not able to remote in from anywhere. So we have been paperless for a long, long, long time though. I think somewhere like 2003, 2004, we went paperless. So we we're always on the front end of that to simplify things. The way I see it happening in the that was early. It was early, but I hate paper, and so it was just a great yeah, I did too.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

I hate it.

SPEAKER_04 41:32

So yeah, it is, it was a waste. I mean, I I definitely I had a scanner, I think, before most people did in their home.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 41:42

Yeah, but uh technology is going to help us to be able to service our clients better better and more efficiently, give them the client experience that they need and give our people time to do what they like better. I mean, that's my people would like to talk to clients on the phone, not push paper, even even push button paper, you know, behind the scenes. So we're trying to use our turn our technology so that we can spend more time with customers. As agency owners, what I see is that we're going to become way more efficient because we'll be able to utilize technology, we'll have higher skilled employees, which I love, and we'll be able to expect them to be more educated and more highly trained because they'll be talking to people all day long and doing what they do best.

SPEAKER_00 42:27

Yeah, I I find it's it's remarkable. Like um, you know, some of these, some of the big companies. My wife has worked in um, she works in in uh the pharmaceutical world. And like some of those companies, I won't name them because I don't want to have some problem, but uh like two of them, very large, that you've heard of, do not let their people use any AI on their computers, are not allowed to, and it's just like wow, let's let's make our people less effective when there's a tool, you know, it's like it's just remarkable.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

So um, you know, that I encourage everybody to use as much as possible because it's gonna give you well proper. Right, right, not copy, paste, copy, paste, copy. That's not gonna work, but the the amount of speed that it can increase your your efficiency with things is just it's remarkable.

SPEAKER_04 43:21

It really is. The and the AI assistant was you know, we we wanted to try it, we turned it on. I had no idea the impact it would have, though, because the gal that was answering the phone is licensed, and she came to me, my gosh, not even 10 days later, was like, the amount of time I have because I'm not getting interrupted all day long to pass the call to somebody else is just shattering. I can't believe it. So, I mean, it was the proof was in the pudding right away that it was, and you know, it's not perfect, it's it will be at some point, but it's definitely a work in progress. We're constantly tweaking it, we're constantly telling her not to say things or stay on script, or but she doesn't take any days off. She's never sick. Even if a hurricane hits North Carolina, she's going to answer the phone. And those things are fantastic. I mean, they're fantastic. So the dependable and the reliableness of it is wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

I'm sure you have, but I'd love to hear what they said. You've asked your clients, like what, you know, hey, what do you think? We're doing this because we want to have more time to, you know, help you on the real stuff. So, you know, what are your thoughts when you speak to, you know, whatever her name is?

SPEAKER_04 44:30

Yeah, so mine's her name's Quinn. We named her Quinn in our agency. But she um, so initially I had clients that went both ways, right? I mean, some people were like, that's the coolest thing ever. I didn't even know it was a robot. And other people were like, I cannot believe you're using a robot. One lady went so far as to tell one of my team members that she was gonna lose her job because computers were gonna replace it and I was gonna replace her. So that same lady emailed me over the 4th of July weekend when I like soft selling Quinn, you know, hey, Quinn's gonna be around. Don't worry, if you need something, she'll answer the phone. She was like, I can't believe you expect me to talk to a robot. Like, well, if you don't, no one else is here. So your choice, but my team is taking a day off. So we've had all extremes, but explaining to customers that that's the reason we're using it is so my team can actually spend more time talking to them, that made all the difference. As soon as customers understood that, they're good.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

So well, yeah, because there's not enough, it doesn't matter how many service people you bring on, it's still gonna go to voice. Right. Right? Like at and you and and all of a sudden your payroll's too. If you had enough people to literally answer the phone for the number of calls that come in, then you have no money and you can't help anybody else. That's exactly right, right? So it's like you can't make them happy with with more people than you could afford anyway. So why not have a solution that's actually going to create capacity and then you can help everybody better? Like I just like like your your example, she was constantly interrupted. Well, for me, like if the second I get interrupted, I'm I'm screwed. I need 20 minutes to reset all of a sudden, right? So it's like, imagine, I mean, and I'm probably an extreme, but but everybody needs a little time to get back into whatever they were doing, and I'm sure mistakes are made when that happens, right? Because there's just you're in the middle of something, and so it's just it's it's it's I think that I mean ultimately everybody's gonna have to accept it because it's the way that things are gonna be. Um, but it is fascinating. My my daughter was scheduling a doctor's appointment and she called and they had it, and she said, I think it was, and I go, tell me what the tell me the conversation, you know. I was all excited because she was talking about it, and she went through, and then she said, you know, there was a time where I thought, no, no, it's a it's a person, but then it started saying some things that were like, no, wait a minute, no, it it isn't. She she she wasn't a hundred percent sure, but she was pretty sure it was. I go, well, then it was, you know, yeah, for sure. But and then I said, So, and she's 25. So I said, What do you think? Like, how does that sit with you? Does that bother you? And she goes, No, it was great, like it it did everything I needed. Right, it got me the appointment, it was friendly, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't it was great, right? Absolutely better than most people that I talk to. Right.

SPEAKER_04 47:32

Well, and we just scratched the surface with what she does and will be able to do. Um, we've already got her taking mortgage changes because those are typically coming from third parties. And after hours, she's getting she's collecting auto information if somebody calls with a car change. So when it gets to us, we've got the transcript already with the VIN. It just saves so much time so that when we call back, we're talking about coverages, what they really need to hear from us, recommendations, and we're off the phone and moving on, and they've got what they need taken care of. So the next steps is to connect it. I mean, the reason we changed our management system is to be able to connect it to our management system. So there's all kinds of possibilities whenever we open that up.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

Oh then you don't even have to, it's like press process, right? For the change. Yes. So you'll come in and there'll be a flow. Yes, and just go boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. That's that is incredible.

SPEAKER_04 48:21

Now, in North Carolina, we still haven't dealt with the you know procuring coverage um by a robot. I'm sure that'll be coming in our legislative you know session for next year, but that hasn't happened yet.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

I mean that will be something.

SPEAKER_04 48:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:36

If people, if if if it can close business, oh man.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

Well, if it can close business, then we might actually be able to, you know, make a buck on small commercial, right? Where everybody's trying to figure that out.

SPEAKER_03 48:50

Home and auto will be gone when that happens. Because why would a carrier need an agent?

SPEAKER_04 48:55

Um, you know, I think that's an interesting question, but I still believe that customers want to talk to people when they have a claim. So, or they've got a sticky situation, and I can think of a dozen of them this year where I personally talked to a client because the claim was so bad. What happened in their home, an accident that was really bad. Um, just they just need a person, or they're doing something kind of complicated and they want to make sure it's being done right, that they've got coverage that they need. Um, so I do think people still want people. There's a certain segment of the population that's always going to want to talk to a person.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Yeah, but they're all dying.

SPEAKER_03 49:33

I I mean, I I think it'll take like once it's once you can do everything with a computer and they don't need an agent, younger people, I don't think care at all about talking to somebody. They would much rather talk to somebody. My daughter.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

And then so I I don't think like for me, I I think it's just going to I mean, I think that certain things become the commodity, right? Like like the auto insurance, like dude, nobody even really buys a car anymore. They're leasing cars and stuff like that. So it's like I think stuff like the car or like the the general, but like I look at something like business insurance, like you need an advisor, right? You know what I mean? And then it's like if you well, if you have any parts of your business insurance, you want them to handle all of your insurance as a business owner, right? So I think like that's a huge uh advantage. But I think that you're just just your typical auto from the dude working at down the street at Best Buy. It's like that guy could care less about an insurance agent. And I think that as soon as robots can do it or are legally allowed to do it, that guy will always be the robot guy.

SPEAKER_04 50:40

Sure, that makes good sense. I agree with you on that. I'm I guess I'm just giving a more complicated, even personalized accounts where they've got rental properties and short-term rentals and um the second properties, you know, all those kinds of things where you really need to make sure you got yourself covered.

SPEAKER_03 50:53

Right. Because the business owner, like especially that person, has so much on their plate, it's like I don't want to deal with looking up the rules to this one or this one. It's like I want somebody else to manage it so I can manage my business, and that's why I have these rental properties.

SPEAKER_04 51:08

That's right. Yep. Completely.

SPEAKER_03 51:10

So it's a totally different game. Yeah. And that that's why, like one of the things you said, like uh I think with robots and everything else, I love that we're calling them robots. I think like I think it's we're in such a cool time right now. And and this is what I a hundred percent believe. I believe that independent agents, we we have like not we, I'm not one uh right now, uh maybe in the future, but who knows. Anyways, uh like an independent agent right now is in this is in this gold era where it's like dude, if you acquire a ton of indie agent, like if you build your independent agency right now, as the robots start being able to do more and more, if you can build it really big, I would say in like three, four years, I mean, if we're getting to the point where they can service everything and service our clients, then it's like it's almost autopilot at that point. Right. You know, like it's really like it's like the gold rush, right now. Right, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 52:16

It is, it is. Yeah, Asians that don't embrace it are definitely gonna get left behind, though. I mean, you at this point, you have to at least be educating yourself, even if you're not using it. And and like not using Chat GPT right now is just sinful to me. Like, if you need to write a social media post or uh an email to a client, like you know, I throw in thoughts that make no sense, like the way they're written, and tell it that's I don't even fix my spelling anymore.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Like, I don't know how it knows what I wrote sometimes gibberish, and it's like, yeah, of course. I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_04 52:49

And then you come out sounding like a polished professional writer.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

Yeah. I'm like, no, that's too good. Make it work for sure.

SPEAKER_04 53:00

But I mean, those kinds of things are just such shortcuts to the day. Something that would take you two hours to come up with took 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

Yeah, yeah. Well, and now it's hooked to your email. You could just say, go through to anything that's a newsletter or junk, delete it, bang, you know, gone. Yep. It's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 53:17

It is crazy. Yeah. We're we're like uh we're we're setting at the we're at the foot of the hill of like 60% of employees getting, you know, getting on unemployment and everybody wondering what the heck to do. And it's like, dude, right now you use Chat GPT, even if it's for something stupid. Like we're talking about emails and stuff that like yes, in five years, it's like that won't matter as much because it's totally gonna be integrated. Like there's no but the whole idea is there's a tsunami coming, and if you don't know what's going on, like this is like the highest leverage tool of all time. Right, highest leverage tool. Yes, it is. And if you're just if you're like the ostrich with your head under the ground, you're gonna get you're gonna get smacked.

SPEAKER_04 54:10

I don't know how you're gonna survive. I I don't think you are gonna survive though. I I think that's that'll be the the division between some agencies, especially some older school agencies that just haven't wanted to modernize. Um that'll be the division for sure.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

I mean colleges are dead, right? Like, I mean, every it's the the the entire world is gonna get flipped upside down. And I mean, I think already has a little bit, you know, like it's it's getting pretty crazy. I want I want the ro the an actual robot that does the dishes.

SPEAKER_04 54:42

That's what I wouldn't that be heavenly, and I want one that cooks too. It will be cooks, is mine. I don't I don't want to cook it.

SPEAKER_00 54:49

I think cooks does the dishes, does the laundry, all the all that stuff. I mean, that will be fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 54:54

Yeah, I can't imagine the life where you don't have to rush home to put dinner on or clean up or I mean, just the time you get back in your day is astonishing.

SPEAKER_03 55:03

Yeah, we'll we'll fill it with other stupid stuff. Yeah, we'll try to break something. People are good at that.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

I I quit I I have almost completely given up social media.

SPEAKER_04 55:19

Well, and I only am on it because of business. That's it. It's yeah, yeah, no longer, yeah. It's you can't keep up with it anyway unless it's your full-time job.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

So right. Like it's it's like the e mail now, right? Like there's just so much, and it does it, and it's an endless scroll. You can go forever, and I I don't know, it's designed to keep you on it. Like I I don't like it when they're trying to trick you into doing things, right? You know, and and I mean it is, right? It it it it does dopamine hits, it it makes you love it. I I don't like it. So and I used to love it.

SPEAKER_04 55:57

Yeah, it's manipulative.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

But I had to kill it. It is as actual rose once. It's a great song.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

So this is a great segue into what advice would you give somebody coming into insurance now, especially with with everything that we're talking about? Um, where do you think the highest leverage is for a newer agent that's smaller that you've been able to scale? How would you um what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_04 56:26

Yeah, for an agent starting scratch, especially, I mean, a technology that the what we have now tool-wise, they can leverage to scale way faster than I could when I started. So I think that is just a fascinating place. I mean, you how professional do you sound if you have an AI assistant answering the phone and you know, able to even take some basic code information for you if you're on the phone with somebody so that you can get back to them. Um, I think leveraging VAs in that same avenue with being able to get back to people faster and doing some of the back office work that AI is just not set up to do yet. Um, and then just the advantages of something like ChatGPT, where you need to work on the business, and now you can do that in an hour and the evening instead of three or four, which I distinctly remember, you know, after my day at the office, going home, eating dinner, and going back on the deck with my laptop to sit the rest of the night and work on the business to do marketing things. And you can do, you know, your everything from your social media campaign to your SEO and your blogs in an hour in the evening. It's just crazy. So I think that would be my best advice for a scratch agent just starting out. Um, and certainly to find some good mentors. Um, I belong to our independent agents association in North Carolina and just having the mentors, the other friends and networking people that you know you can go to with questions. I called one of the friends I have on the board because I know she knew how to do something and I knew she would have done it really well, and I was right, she did. And of course, she shared everything with me. So it's just having those, that, that sounding board and structure is awesome for scaling because you need help along the way. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 58:02

Have you bought, has your agency bought any books?

SPEAKER_04 58:05

So we bought one small book in uh late, I think it was 2008, we bought that book. I have been looking to acquire another agency and unfortunately just haven't found a real good match with us culturally. So we're a very um urban shop. We don't have walk-in traffic, we don't take payments. Um, there's some things that are just really different that other agencies do because they're in small towns that we don't do. So um it's been hard for me to find the right fit, but I'm not giving up yet.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

Yeah, don't do you don't is it like the doors locked, you just like there's no walk-in traffic, or it's just because of where you are, there's no walk-in traffic.

SPEAKER_04 58:45

It's a combination. Um, when we're in a business park and we don't keep our door locked per se, but we're also not in a strip plaza. So our goal always was to find the undisturbed client. So I do think that you know, growth and scale-wise, that that we grew slower because of the type of client and the quality of client that we were looking for. And we had to be okay with that at a couple of points too, but it's really worked itself out nicely now. So we encourage our clients if they need to have an appointment with us. Um, but rarely do they want to come in. I mean, you live in Charlotte and it's gonna take you 20 minutes to get to my office, and you can do that in a Teams meeting in five minutes or just on a phone call in two minutes. I mean, you're just not doing that, you're not driving here.

SPEAKER_03 59:26

So it really kind of works itself out that way. And for a business owner, dude, you just want to like get on to the next thing. You got too much stuff on your plate. Who wants to be driving all over town?

SPEAKER_04 59:38

Yeah, not in our traffic, and it's not even half as bad as some you know major major cities, but it's getting there.

SPEAKER_00 59:46

100%.

SPEAKER_04 59:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:49

Well, I mean, now that we have DoorDash, I hardly drive. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 59:55

It is amazing, but that's funny.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

Every meal almost.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:00

I've got a 14-year-old, so I am a professional chauffeur after five o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:06

There you go.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:07

At no charge to her.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:10

I I have a my my oldest, she's a third 13. And uh we're starting to drive her around a little bit, but man, going back to that school conversation. I mean, I tell her to use chat GPT. Like, why are you gonna write all this stuff out? Like, here, I'll show you how to organize it. Like, right.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:29

We had a my my my husband was helping her with math homework and had clearly not done the math she's doing in a long time. So he put the problem into Chat GPT to see how to do it. And then she was like, Daddy, you're cheating. I can't do that. It's cheating. I'm like, it's not cheating to use a tool when you're stuck and you don't know how to do something, you're looking at how to solve a problem. So we went, oh, open house was the next night, ironically enough, and asked the teacher. And the teacher's like, absolutely, use all the tools. That's what they're there for. Like, use the tools. She said, I know the kids aren't doing their homework when they fail the test. So if they're using the chat GPT as a tool versus just to get the answer, they're gonna do well on the test. So I don't care what they do.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:10

100%. Yeah. Dude, I I do the same thing when I help my daughter. I'll take I I don't even I literally will just take a picture of the page and say, explain this and give me the fewest steps, but like like act as if I don't know anything, right? And just walk me step by step on how to do this uh problem, the easiest way to do it. And then it'll just boom, boom, boom.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:35

It's a phenomenal tool. It's like having a full-time tutor at home at night with you.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:39

Yeah, yeah. It's like having an assistant with you all the time that like is way smarter than you. How do you do this?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:49

I'm way more eloquent.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:51

Yeah. I mean, even like computer programs are like even stuff around the house. I'm not the most fix it guy, but apparently now I am because I just take pictures of things. So I don't even know what this is. Like, oh, this is this. I'm like, oh, cool. I'm like, can I get it? Can I get the part somewhere? Yeah, you can get it at Home Depot. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

Yeah, that's what I did at Dorango at my like, so I don't know if anybody had like I d we we never had a boiler before, but it's a mountain place, right? So there's it's boilers and then the floor heating, and it stopped working. And I'm and I mean this room, it's it's like it's crazy, these pipes and all this crap everywhere. And I'm like, I don't even know what I'm looking at, yeah. Valves and and I just I took I I put it on that vision mode, you know, and I said, What is all this shit? And it and it just was like that thing on the right is this, this is that, this and it, and it knew everything. That's the and it's like turn that, do this, do this, and it fixed it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:47

It's it's insane, and then somebody would say that's cheating, but I say, like, even okay, if you Googled all that stuff, yeah, the plumber would, right, right, but like they he learned out of a book, so it's really getting the information into your brain quicker. That's it, it's not like there is no points for flipping pages or something else, you know what I mean? But we hold but I don't know why people hold that stuff like hold that up.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

Yeah, what what's the outcome? The result or pain, right? Right, right. Like, I mean, why would you why do extra pain when you don't need to? Result. I could get the result, like even at the school, you can't use it. It's like, but we as soon as you leave school, you will be using it, unless you work at the companies that my wife said, you know, like you're gonna use it, right? Like it's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:40

Yeah, we actually got our first two leads from Chat GPT um last week. So again, talking about leverage, that's you know, having your blogs set up schematically correct so it can crawl them is a huge, huge piece of it. Oh so yeah, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:57

I thought it just did something for me too that was like, uh, I would there's no way I would have done this. It's right, it's oh yeah, I set up my Airbnb thing and like all the settings and price labs. Like I you go in price labs to do all the you know dynamic pricing, it's impossible. You can't even understand what they're talking about, and then it's like nope, neither and uh it's like the thing is crushing it now.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:20

That's awesome. Bookings, bookings, that's awesome. That's uh bookings and reviews, that's what it's all about in the short-term metal game.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:28

Yeah, yeah, unless you get trolled. I got one troll review.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:31

Oh, did you? I'm so sorry. It's not cool, it's unreal.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:37

Not happy with Airbnb.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:38

Oh, I've heard that. I've heard that.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

They're so full of it. Yeah, we don't get involved, then they do get involved when they want to.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:46

I would like to go off platform and have all my bookings just be from my website.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

That would be fantastic, but that's very they own it, right? Like they own the space.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:54

They own the space, yeah. They own it very hard.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

So you can't get them too much. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:59

You have to play by the game.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:03

The rules.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:05

Michelle, if anybody wanted to get a hold of you, what is the website? What is where where can they see the stuff?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:13

Yep, my website is oianc.com. I started with O'Connor Insurance Associates way back in the day and realized that was a lot to type. So I still own it, but that's what it stands for. Oi-a-n-c like North Carolina.com. That's our website. All my contact info is on there as well. So happy to chat about um my AI assistant Quinn or anything else fun that that agents want to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:37

You are awesome. Thank you so much for we we really went the distance on this one. So this is awesome. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:43

This is like actually probably the longest one in a very long time.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:47

Oh goodness, I hope it's not because I talk so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:50

No, it's good, it's because it's good. Yeah, I mean, we'll keep going. We're we're pretty much you know at the same level as Rogan, so we'll just go, you know, like we'll just keep going.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:58

I love it. I love it. Well, for those millions of followers, you have to be at the level.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

You gotta, you know, you just gotta put in the you do.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:07

Thanks, guys. You've been great too. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Awesome, thank you so much. Have a great day. Bye bye.