SPEAKER_04 0:00

You come in from retail, dipping your toe into insurance, and then I'm sure it went super smooth when you first started.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

So smooth. I was already running things remote in the corporate world for the last 14 years, so I didn't really need to work in person. So we just transitioned one day.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

That's what you learned from, right? Like those painful moments.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

How many times you talk to somebody who's like, I want to do teleduce, but I just am so afraid to invest the money because what if it fails and what if it doesn't work? And you're like, what if it does?

SPEAKER_02 0:28

You know, something happens and you're like, oh wait, this is real. I love this dane. When things feel like they're falling apart, they may be f What would you tell a new agent coming in like right now? Yeah. In this crazy wacky world we live in.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

You better be ready to We die.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Just real world stuff. That's it. That's the little stuff. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

I are agents. I am profitable. Agents built it. I am a great profit. I am agent. We are agents. We are injured.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

So the wildest thing that's ever happened to me in my agency happened a couple weeks ago. A customer called up. He was furious. And you know what he said? He said, I'm gonna come in and something bad, terrible, is gonna happen unless you take care of this. My name is Bo Vincent, and I am with the Vincent Family Insurance Agency in Hudson, Ohio, and I'm an insurance dude. Boom! Come on up. That was fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 1:53

Yeah, that was good. You've done this before.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yep, this is this is my fourth time with you. No, I'm just kidding. First time. Long time listener, first time uh guest.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

Right on. So we were just all talking about how many times we've seen each other online or or but we've never actually met. No. Which is kind of weird. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and there this even goes back to like even a year, what was it, a year or two ago when you're supposed to come on the podcast and didn't, and then like we never connected again, and then you're supposed to come on like a month ago, and then we had to re- It's just been crazy.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

I I know it's it's kind of back and forth, but it it is amazing because I've heard so many great things about Craig and about you, Jason. And uh we have so many mutual friends that love you guys, and maybe we haven't connected yet because it's gonna be a wild, wild thing that's gonna happen between us all is is us our minds coming together, and something's something crazy baby's gonna come out.

SPEAKER_04 2:54

So stay to the end of the podcast where we deliver the crazy baby. Yeah, the baby, the baby is just get your credit cards ready.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Just kidding. Oh well, I really appreciate you guys having me on. Um, you know, do you mind if I just tell the story real fast about how I started listening to you? Dude, I would love it. I can't believe this. So we can just sit back and you talk. Today is the first time that I've thought about the connection. So here's why I didn't come on the podcast a year or two ago is because I would have forgot this. So the fact is, today I remembered earlier today that in uh spring of 2019, I decided I was going to go buy a captive insurance agency. And I reached out to the captive carrier and I said, I'm in! And I've been dipping my toes back and forth for two years. I was in the retail corporate world. I was dipping my toes saying, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna not. And then I took a week of vacation off, and I even got my licenses, and then I went through the whole process with a little company called State Farm, and I decided to back out. I said, I don't want to do it. So I went back into the corporate world and I went on this spring break in 2019 with my young kids at the time. There's 16, 14, and 8 now, but this would have been seven years ago this month. And I said I went with my buddy who had just signed up with this company to be an agent, and he had the least amount of stress that I have ever seen, and he still had money, and he still had money. He wasn't answering emails like the corporate world, like, oh, what's up, boss? I'm sorry, I'm I'm on, I'm sorry, I'm on vacation with my family. I'll take care of that. But I saw that, and it was such a his name's Tommy, shout out to Tommy, and it was awesome to see, so awesome that I called the carrier on the way home, I sent him back in, let's do it. And I put on, I was driving back from Florida because I did a two-way trip. I met my buddy down in like Atlanta from Ohio, and then we went from Atlanta down to uh Florida. So on the way back from Florida, Orlando, I actually started listening to your podcast in 2019. I just said I searched because you know that that's a long drive. That's like a day and a half. So I find stuff to get me through the long drive. Put my headphones on, I'm listening to you guys. How's how sweet is that? Dude, that is incredible.

SPEAKER_04 5:18

What a connection. Well, at that time, right, it was like the insurance dudes are the insurance guys, and the insurance guys started before us, but we're like, we're dudes. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

Yeah, no, no, yeah, it was you guys. It was you. It was it was it was you, without a doubt. I looked it up just to make sure. But yeah, um, it was incredible because it actually gave me some inspiration, and it wasn't just like, let's talk about what these products are and what they mean, right? And that's what you know, a lot of the stuff and content was back then was just teaching you about insurance and how to sell it. It was and you guys were less boring than that. So appreciate that. Shout out to my dudes, insurance dudes.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Oh man, I love it, man. I appreciate that. Yeah, Craig's the one that helps make it uh not boring.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:07

Is that right?

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Yeah, I don't know about that. You're a fun guy. Is that right? I don't know why I just said that twice. That's bad radio.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

I've heard it.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

So, dude, Bo, that that is the most amazing thing, and so honored to be a part of your story. Why? Because I know your story. Um, you came on the scene and dude, you blew your agency up. So I would love to hear that. Like you come in from retail, dipping your toe into insurance, and then I'm sure it went super smooth when you first started.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

So smooth. So smooth, I almost said, why did I do this? Um, it's amazing. No, so uh yeah, so I interviewed the one thing about the corporate world, especially retail, is like if you know a little bit about it, man, turnover can be high. If you are a general manager, district, regional, so I worked my way up from an assistant manager all the way to managing three different states at once, had 600 employees, 40 million premium. I had my dream house in the dream neighborhood in a suburb of Toledo, and it doesn't sound fancy, but it was awesome in a suburb of Toledo, and we were living essentially what I kind of dreamed of, but I I always felt like there was something more for me. Wanted to be an entrepreneur. I I knew that I was meant to not just lead people but take it a step further and actually develop you know, cultures, compensation plans, career development plans for an entire company. So I thought, this is it, I gotta do it. I'm 33 with three kids. When am I going to do it if I don't do it now? And I cashed out everything, quit and moved three hours closer to home and uh started an agency. It was an ECP agency, and I didn't know Jack. I didn't even could barely describe what comp was versus collision, and um I relied on my past of leading leaders and and hiring recruiting salespeople. So I found somebody to take care of the service side, and I interviewed 80 people to land on four, which was a lot back then.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

That's actually pretty damn good numbers.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Yeah, I yeah, not bad, right? We had four. I think I hired eight, and you know the the way that I did it back then, completely different the way I do it today. I got four people to get licenses, and four never got them, never showed up, is what happened. So I didn't get anybody experience, which was nuts, right? To even think about. Like I had the only person experienced was Kathy, she's still with me today. She was the office manager at the time, she's now our service manager, but started out. We finished 2019 right around 700,000, and then something crazy happened a couple months later, which is COVID. It just freaking ripped my heart out for a second, and I had to really take a breath and say, I had this fancy slogan that I used to say, and I've since trademarked it, but it we love insurance, but we love people more. And guess what I had to do when COVID hit? I had to show my team that I love them more than what they could sell, and I wanted to kind of make them feel safe during a really difficult time, even though I was only what, five months in uh to being an in an agency owner. And and you want to hear something else that's crazy? I got sued in December and I opened in October because I my one of my staff members called somebody that was on do not call. So I just got bam bam. I've never talked about on the on the air, but dude, I got smacked with a a big uh lawsuit right off the rip, and I'm used to having a corporation that backs me up so I could call HR Law and get get them on my side, right? No, this this was a gut check. A gut check.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Get away.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

Yes, it was terrifying. And I thank God to this day. My dad has had some struggles, man. Um he had this is like not to like, you know, I'm gonna grab the attention of you guys, but I'm going to. My dad had got out of prison in September and I opened in October. The craziest part is my dad had a great friend and attorney that had been helping him with his journey through everything he's done in life. Um that he grew up with. It was a former judge. So I was able to call this guy and say, hey, um, blah blah blah is gonna represent me, and he took care, so they they they figured it all out for me. But dude, it was terrifying. And then I go into COVID, so it was like bam, bam, and and then we just took off. Instead of going down, we just took off. That's actually when it took off. I love this saying, but when things feel like they're falling apart, they may be falling together, and it just kind of fell together. Um, a couple agents down the road let go of people because they wouldn't let them work at home. But I don't know if you understand, you know, regional, district, like corporate leadership in corporate world, like I would I just never saw anybody once a quarter, once every six months. So I was already running things remote in the corporate world for the last you know 14 years, so I didn't really need to work in person. So we just transitioned one day to home. And and the craziest part is um we have like four people in person today, and they're only service up, and we're up. I think we hit we ended the year at 23 people, and everybody's remote except for four. So it and they they're remote from a sense that they still work like this with the team, even though they work in office. So uh yeah, crazy.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

You started your ECP uh 2019 in September. October. October. Dude, I think I started my ECP in I think it was September.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Really? You were I think you were October because I was November.

SPEAKER_04 11:54

Oh, you were in one of the years. Dude, it started at the same time. Were you in Chicago? No, well, so it was a it was like my second agency at that time.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Okay, that makes sense. Um, that would have been even crazier if we were up in Chicago for the agent trip and we never met you. Um I know I would have. We would have been bros.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Can you imagine if you knew if you knew then what you know now about ECP?

SPEAKER_01 12:21

Like if you could take this knowledge and apply it, like I mean, uh We were talking about a friend before this call, and I don't want to shout him out, but the dude knew a lot about insurance, and he went from corporate into an agency with an ECP and he blew that up. If I had that kind of knowledge now, yeah, I would have loved to. And you know what else is crazy? I had this opportunity to buy an ECP two years in, and I decided no because you know, do you remember that little term IS? They said, you gotta do IS, and I said, not do an IS forever. I'm not, I don't like that. So I said no, and then the next month the agency TPP'd in the ECP, they they decided to say, Oh, we're not gonna require IS anymore. And I'm like, oh, so I could have taken an ECP at my second year and I would have destroyed it. But back then there was a thing called Century Club, and it was a big deal to actually sell a hundred items. Now we got people selling a hundred items, even in my agency. So it's nuts. Like, what what yeah, I would, dude, I would love to. I'd love to, yeah, uh not get rid of my people, but sell and buy an ECP would be amazing. I'd do that.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

Because you would just come out so hot, you know, it's like that was fun.

SPEAKER_04 13:35

So hot, dude. So hot. When that dude that you're talking about came to us uh to get um to get callers, yeah, he got four. And we were like, dude, don't do that. Get like one, learn the system, and it's easy to add after that. And he's like, no, no, no. I want to go four right off the rip. And we're like, and then the next thing you know, he keeps adding, and we're like, dude, this is like the rate at which he was but button.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

How many does he have? 18 or something? 17 or 18. 17 or 18. I mean, it's it's crazy. And now he's now he's a good buddy, and we've known him for.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Oh, dude, he's awesome. I mean, are we allowed to say his name?

SPEAKER_02 14:15

The king of Ohio. Yeah, George. He's the sausage king of Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

It was like Sausage King of Ohio. It doesn't ring the same way, does it? No, it's not. Kind of sounds gross, actually.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

I just don't have I don't have it. It like obviously, uh, you know, I have a lot of telemarketers and um or callers, whatever we're gonna call them, but to go to where you have you know 12, 15 salespeople and then the 30 or 40 call, you know, it's just too much. I I I think I've lost my uh my will on that. My sweet spot now, I love having four or five producers, yeah. Like 12 callers, you know, and then because the callers do the heavy lifting, the producers sit back and and collect the money. Absolutely, they do. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

I mean, I I I could do that job when I first started the agency. It was like, I'm dialing, I'm taking live calls. I did have teledudes. I did have teledudes in 2019 and 2020. I I I know for sure back when I first started, for sure, that was a big part of it. And like, dude, we just were so happy when I didn't have to dial 600 dials to get you know one person back then, um, or to get a do not call, you know, lawsuit slapped on me. But it wasn't on me, it was one of my employees, which is even worse, you know. It was and it was like, dang it, dang it, man.

SPEAKER_04 15:40

But I can't believe I I've heard a lot of you know horror stories, the first year horror stories, but nothing like two months ago.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Right? You always hear threats, you very rarely see it follow through, right? And this dude, like, he was a silent. There was no indication, no, no, he didn't yell at anybody, he didn't say he was doing anything. The guy was an attorney. That's the problem.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

So it but they do little nonetheless.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Uh I I mean, we sign those NDAs and stuff. I don't want to give away too much, but yeah. But like the thing is, like, at this time, at this time, it's like, you know, you know, man, you just made me stronger. It's I I think um what it did is it it put me in check really fast. Is like, you are your legal counsel, you are HR, you are everything in your agency. So thank God I had the background in the training that I did have because I knew how to jump on something fast, even though I didn't have somebody lined up. You know, I will say this trying to find an attorney when you need one is stressful. Um you know when you don't need it and picking the right people is like today is better than after you need it. So there's nothing worse than saying, Who should I call? Mom, what should I do?

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Those lessons, though, are the ones that that that's what you learn from, right? Like those painful moments. Like you get nicked in the ear by the bullet, and you're like, oh, it almost got me. Almost. But man, it changed, it changed how I operate. Because I remember like, you know, coming in, being lost, not knowing what to do, and kind of loosey goosey, like, uh, no big deal, you know. We could yeah, we could do this, we could do that. And you know, something happens, and you're like, oh wait, this is real. This is like the real deal over here. Right?

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Real deal, gotta wear all the hats. And that was the thing, is like, thankfully, I I I shared a hat day one with with Kathy, who's still with me, you know, almost seven years this year. Um, set, you know, and delegated the service, the customer service, and you know, back then a couple hundred policies, but you know, we just passed, we're I think we just passed 14,000 policies. So like it's just crazy to see that that she she's been there, but like, you know, we I delegated and excelled because in the beginning I delegated everything I didn't want to do, right? The hardest thing, and you guys probably know this, hardest thing was delegating things I like to do, and that took even longer. It took me a couple years to delegate sales um to my sales manager eventually, and um it took me a couple years even after that to delegate um uh referrals and and and mortgage brokers, like the relationships with somebody else. So um, but yeah, man, it's just been a wild ride, and I've I've been thankful to have it. And yeah, do I some days I wish I could have known what I knew now when I started, but you know, I'm thankful that I started at the age I started because I think if I would have started young, I would have been good, but I would have not had the knowledge or the background that I had. And I think I needed to go through you know that 14 years in a corporate sense, uh, me personally, to be where I'm at today. So I I don't I wouldn't trade that for this. I'm just thankful I got both uh both of them.

SPEAKER_04 19:00

So yeah, careers, you know. That is awesome, man. It's it's so crazy, like uh going through that process of like you never know the reason why you go through what you go through, but it really all comes together at times, you know? Um and this is one of those businesses where it doesn't matter, like, you know, I I can take like from my own experiences say everything from like working at Starbucks or working at bars and like all that stuff that seems like whatever, it's like it gives you that I don't know, like that that ability to be able to, you know, you you start pulling from all those different things, and and really it's what makes an insurance agent unique compared to your typical needle nose Ned, Ned the head, you know, from Groundhog Day where you got life insurance from uh Yeah wasn't that Ned from uh Groundhog's Day?

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yeah, Needle Nose Ned You know cut the shingles real bad.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

You know what I love is we're all wearing t-shirts. When I started, no one wore t-shirts. Oh man. It was like needle nose Ned, shh, like tie up to the neck. And I said, that's not me. That's not because I worked at a company called Finish Line. I was in footwear, and and I we got to dress like cool, you know. I got to wear Jordans, Nikes, stuff like that, geezy. And and like, you know, I'm like, I'm not, I'm not about to sit in office eight hours a day, nine hours a day, ten hours a day, eleven hours a day, in a suit and tie. That's just not me. Um, I did wear a polo a little bit, but then I slowly went into tease. And and I just am like, you know, you don't have to wear a suit to get respect. I mean, I think in the beginning it felt like it, but but what trust and respect comes from is really in, like I say, the care and the love that you share towards our customers and and how you take care of them. You know, I could take care of somebody the same, believe it or not, I could do just as much in a T, maybe more, than I could in a suit.

SPEAKER_04 21:09

Dude, I when when I first came in here, I was wearing suits every day. And I hated it. I felt like such a tool. And and I remember somebody came in and like, oh, you're you're the guy that took over the agency. And and they said something about the way I was dressed, and they're like, oh, you're gonna you're gonna jack up the rates. And I said, hmm, maybe wearing this is not the best thing. And I I said from that day on, I'm like, I hate wearing this anyways. Why would I wear this? And then yeah, no one cared.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

I ordered a bunch of our carrier t-shirts with the logo logo on, and I wore those. Plus, they were a little more form-fitting so I could show off a little bit, you know, of the muscles versus I'm just kidding. But I muscle tees, yeah. Yeah, right? Tank tops. No, I'm good. I'm kidding. But yeah, that's why I stopped parking my Lamborghini out. Front and wearing a wife beater to work every day is because I wanted to earn customers. I'm just I'm kidding. I don't have either uh wife beaters or a Lamborghini, but sounds fun, doesn't it? It does.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Well, you normally don't hear those two things in the same sentence either, which makes it even better.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Are you allowed to say wife beater anymore? I don't know, but absolutely it's a T top, right? A top or whatever. What do they call it? You know, a shirt.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Yeah, like ridged. Yeah, yeah, riddled. Is it a ribbed?

SPEAKER_01 22:31

Is it a ribbed tank talk? Yeah, there it is. For his pleasure. I'll stop interrupting so you can ask something, Craig.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

No, I'm good. I'm sorry, I'm interrupting. So I'm trying to fix my lights at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 22:44

I I want to go through like how did you take that agency from four people?

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

And and and how did you start scaling? Like what were the first steps to really what were some of the big um dominoes that that created momentum?

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Yeah, the biggest thing I did right off the rip was hire Kathy and delegate to her. And and this was money that I didn't really have. And a lot of people were like, why are you hiring a manager? You're you're 700, you're like barely $700,000 agency, and I didn't know what anything, how big or what I said, we got a couple hundred customers. What do you mean? So like I hired her and it was money I never got to get. So what I mean is I delegated, I designated money to her before I ever got to keep it. So I didn't have to give it up. And you know, if I would have waited a year and said I should hire somebody for 60 grand, 50 grand, it I would have had to pull it out of my pocket, but I never got to make it. So I just delegated it and designated it right to her from day one, which helped me divide and conquer. So I didn't have to do both sides of the business all the time. I did a little bit of reviews, but dude, I was a sales guy, that was my background, so was hiring, training, you know, salesmen, general managers, district managers, and I really wanted to do that. And I took on the sales, and Kathy will tell you, she's like, she said at the time, and it makes me feel good to think back because days are different now, but she's like, I never seen anybody sell like you. And I was like, dang, let's go. She was 22 years at you know, with the previous agent who at the time, Robert McKenna, I don't know, you guys are started around the same time as me, probably didn't know, but he was the largest agent in Ohio when he retired. And she went from him to me. She said, I've never seen anybody work uh sell like that. So I carried the agency for the first six months. Then I hired who is now my sales manager as an LSP. She left an office as an office manager. I made her an offer. She said, Nope, disappeared as an LSP. She said, No, I'm a manager. And I said, Well, I've trained a lot of managers in my career, and I'm looking for a leader, not a manager. So maybe come back if you think it's a good fit in the future. She came back and said, All right, I'll take LSP a couple months later. And I trained her to as a leader. That was something that I felt like I had been so experienced and gifted with training. You know, I had 30 direct report uh general managers, several district managers at the time that I trained right before I started. So um I decided to uh start training her. And so her and I sold side by side with four people at the time, and her and I were neck and neck, and then eventually at one point I said, Hey, I'm gonna slowly I'm not gonna I'm gonna stop taking leads, and I want you guys to take more, and I'm just gonna work referrals now. And then maybe a year later, so about a year and a half into her, two years into me, I said, I'm not gonna sell it all anymore, I'm gonna give all my referrals away. So I hired Kathy, that's one thing, for service, hired Rachel, trained her up and turned over sales to her as the sales leader at year two, and then I started to work more on the business exclusively. Um, I I was more involved in training, hiring, recruiting, bookkeeping, budgeting, referrals, buying the leads, you know, etc. So that was that was a big deal. And then I moved it to uh a whole nother level. I promoted her sales leader, which was like I look at it like, hey, I need you to be the Tom Brady. I'm gonna go from Tom Brady and I'm gonna be Bill Belichick for a while, and I'll be the sales manager, you be the sales leader, but I need you to keep selling and I need you to lead them on the field. And then uh a couple years from there, we promoted her to sales manager, and I want to say I was somewhere around 10 million mark when I did that. Um, which then we took people from high 30s, low 40s to where almost all of last year we averaged in the 50s for per person per LSP. So when we promoted her, we saw LSP production, licensed sales producer production, like shoot through the roof because we had a full-time you know coach for two years, you know, interviewing, hiring, coaching, training, all all the time what I was doing. So it was just a big progression, it's really uh done well for us. And now we have an operations coordinator. He he buys, he does all the operational stuff, buys leads, um, he does uh interview stuff, um, he takes care of our phone systems, our memberships, our training. So, I mean, health benefits, all those things that operational would do. So now that was kind of still on my plate or left in in areas, but really have delegated uh slowly delegated all my daily tasks in the first couple years, and then in the last four years, I've delegated my monthly or weekly tasks now too. So it's just been really cool to kind of be in the the CEO mindset of like I'm looking about, I'm I'm I'm I'm casting the vision and I'm I'm I'm making sure that our our three C's are in line culture, compensation, and career development. And it's not always me making the decision, I'm just making sure that it's in line with we love insurance, but we love people more. So that's where I'm at today. That's how we got there.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

That's awesome. Why do you think it's so hard for I mean I I can see with your past what I mean? You had confidence in yourself being able to uh hire, delegate, and have other people uh in place of you, but how did how can other people when they don't have that experience get there?

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Um so here's some good advice. One thing I learned in the corporate world is I thought I ran it like I owned it until I owned it. Uh you've always heard people say, Oh, I ran it like I owned it. And it's like, I did to a degree. I did. I did my best. Possibly I ran PN, I was in charge of PLs, you know, so I did get to see that side, but I didn't get any extra money if we made 12,000 or 12 million. Like, I didn't really get any extra money on that, right? They had goals or expectation, but there was not like, hey Bo, if you go from making 12,000 profit to 12 million, you get that. Like, or you could share that. So the the coolest part is that I ran the business income like it was the business income, even though every single dollar above what we needed was technically mine, but it helped me not take things so personal. And sometimes when we take things personal, it actually gets to become emotional. And when we're emotional, it hurts people's feelings and they don't want to work for emotional people, they want to work for steady people. So when I learned that I, hey, I can't take things so personal, even though it really is my dream, my dream, my business, my money. And if I act like that, nobody wants to work with that. So I learned very fast that hey, it's us, it's we. Yes, I'm in charge of the vision, it all falls on me, but it's we. If the money stays in the business until the business needs it, and if it doesn't need it, then it's mine. So I treated it slightly different to where I had some guys that started right at the same time, same class as us, Jason, that have been gone. And they did really well in the beginning. But you know what they did by year two, 2020? They were buying escalades and new homes and stripping every dollar out of the business, Craig. And then they say, Well, I can't, I can't afford to hire more people and hit the goals they're they're saying. It's like because you stripped every dollar out, and that was your choice because you own it. And that's the greatest part about ownership. But when people say, I want to do what you did, I say, Well, then put your money back in and reinvest most of it for the first three to four years, and then it'll be so big you gotta take it.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Yep. Yeah, yeah, it gets to a point where it snowballs. You gotta take money. You're talking about it's gotta take money. Hey, you gotta W two days like take money out. What are you doing? Right? Like, I think you know, a lot a lot of folks, if this happened to me, I I, you know, I was at Barrel Lynch, then I then I came here, and so I'm accustomed to having income. Yeah, and I'm thinking, well, with the note and all this, how you know, I need to make at least this. So I had the wrong mindset coming in, yeah. And and that can kind of lead because you you're okay, I'm set at this this level, right? If I don't get that, then then all of a sudden you have the scarcity mentality, and then you go down the wrong way. Yeah. Right? Like it just it it doesn't get anywhere. It's just and you know, it it's the the switch flipped, and I understood it's like, okay, forget it. I if I have to suffer, then I'll suffer and and just pour it back in. And that's when it was like, holy crap, it starts multiplying. Oh yeah, right? Yeah, there's no like if you can't afford to hire the other person so that that when you're at capacity or whatever, and I mean you're screwed. Because you're never, it's not gonna get, it's not gonna improve with the current situation. This this situation is not gonna get better. You have to make you have to take the action that's gonna maybe hurt right now, but then boom, there's a multiple, you know, in six months, a year. That's what's so beautiful about it, right? Is we can predict what our lifetime value is gonna be of that client or customer, whoever we sign up, yeah, and and know, like, okay, it's not just worth the 50 bucks or 100 bucks or $300 we got off the household for the for uh the new business, it's the whole stretch. And then you can plan. Yeah. And yeah, but you know, piece size Craig back then didn't understand that.

SPEAKER_01 32:39

That's that's that's fine. One thing that I like, it's good that you learned it for you because I think sometimes people learn differently, and some people have to learn it themselves, and some people can read a book and learn it. And I'm not the book guy, I'm uh I'm not like, hey, I read that book and now I'm gonna do 99% of what that book said. And and I'm I'm thankful that there are people out there like that. But really, if you look at stats, 10% of them of people in the world can read a book and actually understand it and run with it. About you know, 70% need to do it themselves, either in and and they can learn, fail, try again. You know, this like a we I really got to a point where uh I I'm so glad you called scarcity mindset because I got to a point where I felt like I was an abundant mindset where I had no matter what I gave, I was going to find success, whether it was God or my own hard work, like it was going to come. If I gave, I never failed in my life giving time and money to people. And whenever I invested in the people, specifically the people that work for me, because I looked at them like, hey, you're my customer, I'm here to serve you. If I serve you, you don't have to worry about you. You just worry about our customer, I'll worry about you. And and I always keep going back to the three C's, but that's what I say is like, I'm gonna worry about the culture, I'm gonna worry about how much you make, I'm gonna worry about your benefits, I'm gonna worry about your career path and how you're gonna get there. And you just need to worry about the customer, I'll help you get there. So it really changed a lot when I started to think like, wow, because I had a really big mentor friend that said to me, Um, this guy told me one time, hey man, and he was a billionaire. So my one buddy runs a pretty big business now, and his mentor is a billionaire, tells him, hey man, whenever times got tight for me, I gave more time and money to people. And I'm just like, man, that's impactful because a lot of people they want to tighten up the ropes when things get bad. Where he says, No, no, no, if you tighten up, you really do go down, you have to open up when things get tight. So I started to take that thought, and and it just is really changed. It's not every day, every week, every month is so beautiful and flowers and sunshine. But overall, though, I like you said, Jason, I have this saying, you know, you have to live life and fast forward. The only way to see how things fell together is to watch it and rewind. Because when we're in fast forward, we can't see how these things are actually building us, falling together, etc. So when I sit back and I watch these things, it's kind of like a beautiful picture of like it didn't feel beautiful, you know, some of those times, but man, it's really cool to see where you know God has taken me now, like uh in the team that we have. So love them. Love them.

SPEAKER_02 35:29

Yeah, there isn't a shortcut. It's like you you gotta put it in, and and then when you do, you know, you get something out of it. Yeah, I've heard you say uh it's what is it? It's uh work like 10, pay compensate like eight, is that right? How did you know that? You're a beast. You know, I uh I have some I have a little helper.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Dude, what the heck? Oh yeah, I want, and I said that today on our freaking meeting. Were you on my morning meeting today?

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Maybe I was.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

Yeah, Jason or Craig was uh literally in the background. He had no camera on, so I couldn't see him. Um okay, I always say this. I want I want people to, I want five people to work like 10 so that I can pay them like eight people. Okay? It's it is just, and people don't leave you when they make that extra 30% more than they do anywhere else. Because it's one of those three C's. You know, for some people, compensation is way up here. In some people, culture's up here. Some people, hey, I want to be developed to a manager, that's up here. But there is a little bit of something in those three for everybody, but compensation is a tool that everybody needs that I know of personally, they need that unless they're independently wealthy, they need that money. So I've always said to people, hey Jason, I don't want you to clock out and work for two more hours to make your sales. What I want you to do in a beautiful, perfect world, is to work eight hard hours. I want you to be so uncomfortable at work because you're busting your butt, you will be so comfortable outside of work. And what the problem is is that so many people, Craig, they want to be comfortable at work and at home. And I'm like, you know, you you need to be uncomfortable in one of the two places. And if you make yourself uncomfortable and your goals so uncomfortable that you have to run towards them, you get to have this beautiful life outside of work where you clock out and you're like, oh, feels good. Now I get in my Lambeau with my tank top and I ride off. But I don't have one, by the way. I've joked twice. I don't want one and I don't have one.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

But it it is a pretty pregnant this morning. Were you in you guys were hanging out or something? No, no, I'll be honest with you.

SPEAKER_02 37:31

In my Lambo. That's why you keep saying it. I do love nice cars.

SPEAKER_01 37:35

I just wouldn't uh I it's tough in Ohio, man. You guys live in a different area. I'd drive my Lambo, what, two months maybe? And I'd put a hundred miles a year on it. But um being used to that that's what I want. I want people to be efficient. So it's not always about work harder, harder, harder, harder. It's about automation, AI, work, you know, the right leads, the right timing. Um, so it is it is more about efficiency than it is about a lot of people work hard, but they spin their wheels. So it's it is about making sure that people are trained, highly trained, and understand hey, you know, if you waste 30 minutes trying to figure out what to do next, that's waste. And it probably happens multiple times a day, times five days in a week. You just wasted what five to ten hours that week, then you multiply it times 52 weeks, and you're talking what 520 hours that were wasted this year? So I'm about the efficiency side because I want them to work so hard, I want to have higher expectations than other agents, but I will pay you better, you will feel good, you'll love it, and you'll go home and have a good life.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

Yeah. Yeah. So what I've heard you say so far is like raise the standard, right? So like don't accept, and that's a hard thing, I think, for a lot of people that aren't really called to be managers. You know what I mean? Like, we all get in this, we all have our own skills, and I think it's hard for a lot of agents to have the hard conversations with people. You know? Um, I just talked to another agent about this, and he has high expectations. And I was like, dude, the only way that you're gonna get through this is like, you know, everybody tries to avoid firing people. Yeah, you know, or avoid having those minimum expectations written out where it's like, if you don't do these things, you're gone, or do do these things, anything less than this, you're gone. Yeah. People are so afraid to draw the line because they don't want to rehire, and then they just create this situation where these lower level people with lower standards are in with some people with higher standards, but then they let the the lower standard people be the reason why they don't put the foot on the gas. Well, they're doing this. Yeah. And so I like one of the people I talked to, I was like, dude, you're gonna have to make the hard decisions this year. Like, if you really want to do that, you're gonna have to fire people and put your foot in the, you know, your line in the sand. You can get there, but it's not gonna be easy like emotionally.

SPEAKER_02 40:08

You know what I mean? No, and it's swimming upstream having the having the the duds on the team when there's some good there's good players, they're like, well, you know, eh, I don't have to do, I don't have to try as hard. Look at look at this guy over here. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

I have this saying about team members is you know, we all want the top performers. I I refer to them as eagles. I don't know why, but I I refer to eagles as eagles. I've never seen an eagle fly with a pigeon. So I gotta get rid of the pigeons. And and you know, and we just want to, if you want to have eagles, you gotta have you have to have eagles. You can't have you know those duds stuck in the middle because nobody likes to work the bust their butt off, especially in our world where they might think, oh, Johnny makes pride the same as me on his hourly or or salary, and you know, he's not, but thankfully there's a commission aspect that really comes into play for sales, and people do get compensated based on what they earn and what they deserve. But totally agree, man. It's like, you know, what I learned is that people don't like, they think they don't like change, and they're they're afraid of one, they're afraid of confrontation. Um, but you know what I actually learned is part of the reason why I think people are afraid of of holding people accountable is I've learned that they're afraid to do it because they actually are guilty of doing the same thing, one, or they're actually uh guilty of not have ever really training them. And they're like, I've never really trained them. I'm trying to hold them to a standard that's really not uh possible because I've never trained them. I don't buy them the leads, I don't have the telemarketing support, I don't I never really train them to hit 50 items a month. Like we have 30 minimum now a month, and we just we've pushed it up, and it's like it's crazy because when I started, I would have died to have like 10 people selling 30. Now it's like I can't afford to have somebody at 30. So, but it's a different world, and yeah, having those set minimums out uh they I always say minimums keep your job. That's what they do. Hit the minimum, keeps your job. A goal should be something you're striving for, so not something you're averaging. That's not a goal, that's an average. So what's your goal? Is your goal 100 items and your minimum is 30? So you need to play somewhere in between.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

Yep. So yeah. 100%. We uh the West Coast lingo for that is uh is you can't turn ducks into eagles.

SPEAKER_01 42:35

Oh, yeah, okay, okay. Similar to always say that. We used to say it all the time. I I never heard that, but I love it. Same thing. I like it so much. I'm gonna tell my sales manager, instead of saying doves or pigeons, let's just say, hey, that duck's gonna quack, it's never gonna be an eagle. Right?

SPEAKER_04 42:53

Eagles don't quack. But dude, you're 100% right. Like, if you don't hold yourself to standards and you let yourself down, you're there's no chance that you can hold other people to a standard.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

If you have any kind of moral sense, you start to feel so guilty that you're about to fire somebody for something that you don't do, and and secretly you're hiding that your best producer doesn't do it half the time. The difference is they just do it enough, right? To you know, to not get fired. So that's where the corporal world taught me a lot was like, hey, you can't do that because you're not holding this guy accountable. So that's where it taught me to teach every treat everybody fairly, but not the same. So fairly meaning there's a set of standards everybody's gotta hit. You break them, don't care who you are, you're gonna go. Because if not, I'm just a liar. I'm actually lying. If I say, hey, if you do this, this is where I started to get really tough on people over the last 14 years at leaders is I'd say, Jason, you told them you would do this and you didn't do it. What does that make you? Is that a liar? Is that what you call that? Liar? Did you tell? Them you would promote them and you didn't. Did you tell them you would lie that or tell them you'd fire them or write them up and you didn't? You're a liar. Be a man of your word or don't say it. Like just man up. Don't say it or do it. Okay? So it was, it's and then I obviously gotta live at that level too. And what's crazy about people like us, I can tell guys, is I say things and I unintentionally forget. And I was like, did I say that? So so so the thing is that we got so much stuff documented. I try to send an email for recaps and stuff like that. Hey, just to recap our call, or here's a write-up, here's a performance improvement plan. I try to document things, not just to hold them accountable, but myself. Because when I say something, I really want to be a man of my word. Because when I when I don't fire people when they deserve it, what's any difference to say that I may not promote you when I say I will too? Right. What's the difference?

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Yeah, I mean that there's an ode to keeping it simple, right? Like the the simpler we can keep it around here, there's less to remember. Have you ever heard of it? Because I can't remember anything. K-I-S-S. Yeah, keep it simple, stupid.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

Hey, that's mean. Oh, sorry. No, but it's dead right. We used to say that all the time back in the radio world. Hey, kiss, fo, kiss. And I'm like, whoa, back up. No, keep it, keep it simple, stupid.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

That's why I tell the AI all the time all the time. I'm like, do this thing, kiss. And you see it like talkie, talkie to itself. Wants to do the keep it simple, stupid.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

You know what just hit me? I was gonna say earlier. When in 2019, when I got slapped with that suit, you know what? The first thing I would do today, I'd go to Chat GBT, I'd go to any AI platform and say, I what should I do? You know, or here read this letter. If we didn't have that, isn't it funny to even think that 2019 feels like another like lifetime?

SPEAKER_02 45:53

I mean, isn't it funny to think two years ago we didn't have it? I mean, really, it wasn't anything like it is now. Uh I mean, six months ago.

SPEAKER_04 46:02

When somebody comes to me for a question about something, I'm just like, what? I'm like, dude, you have the answer in your pocket to everything. Yeah. There's no reason to ask me a question. All I'm gonna do is look it up.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

I would prefer people to tell me. This is what I always tell my team, like, in what you know what I say, we don't answer questions. Somebody asks me, we don't answer questions. Leaders don't answer questions, we ask questions. So when somebody comes to me, hey boss, uh, Rachel, what should we do? Rachel's my sales manager, and then she might they they she I've taught her over the years. It's like you ask them a question of their question, you let them know. We are training problem solvers, we're teaching you to problem solve for yourself. So, my question to you, Jason, is I'm not gonna answer it, but tell me what do you think we should do? What did you look up? Where did you find it? What do you think? Oh, perfect. Go ahead and go. Good luck. A lot of times people ask you questions, you know why? They're so worried that if they make the decision on their own and they fail, they're gonna get fired. They're afraid to make that decision. I have had this. If you go back and ask my mom and teachers in high school, they will tell you Bo was a kid that he did and then he asked for forgiveness. He didn't ask for permission. So I think that's carried into entrepreneurship like to the nth degree, is like, I'm not gonna wait around. I'm gonna fail. I'm gonna figure it out before you are even started. And that just is what it is.

SPEAKER_04 47:25

I mean, the other that's what they indoctrinate you in in schools.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

It's so crazy, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 47:30

Sadly, to be careful if you get the wrong answer. It's like dude, you should get in trouble if you only tried once. Yeah, like no one can ever try in the real world. You try once on something and you don't do it, and then you stop, like you're never gonna win. Never. You're always gonna be a loser. Never.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Well, we're gonna think cray. I don't know. Okay? No, but but that's the thing. The thing that makes us the thing that makes us, I think, good at this is that is that we're willing to fail. Yeah, but then luckily, I mean, it seems like you have the ADHD too. What do you mean? Um but exactly. The beautiful thing about about being neurospicy is you wake up the next day and you don't remember all the pain that happened yesterday. It's gone. Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Start over again, right? So Yep, I don't dwell on those. I'm always dreaming about the next thing. I can I'm able to say that's stung, but let's not get stung again. But I'm still dreaming about something really big over here. So we'll just get back to it. It's fine.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

Yeah, something else will come along that you're that that captures your attention.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

How many times you talk to somebody who's like, I want to do teledudes, but I just am so afraid to invest the money because what if it fails? And what if it doesn't work? And you're like, what if it does? What if it does work like it did for George? What if it does work? What if like it did for Bo and you didn't do it and you're still thinking about what if it did, and you're calculating every cost, overcalculating it, you just need to take the risk. It's time to go. It's time to go.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

What if your aunt had balls?

SPEAKER_01 48:58

But that's everybody.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

I mean, I want I've been wanting to drop that one on here for eight years.

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Well, hey, this is the episode, and I'm this is it. It's me and you, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

They'll edit that and just isolate that.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

Yeah, I like the neurospics.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Yeah. Don't use that one. What are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 49:24

So, Bo, yeah, what are you excited about? Like what what what is uh these days, what's really getting you going for the next couple years as an agent?

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Um, one, I have this goal by the end of 2027, and you know, goals change, and I'm willing to allow them to change, but today's goal for the insurance agency is I'd like to get to 40 million by the end of 27. So I got I give myself about what 18, 19 months to go. Um, and I'd like to hit I'd like to do that. Actually, no, 21 months. Is that what it is? So, whatever. 27. No, I said it right the first time. Okay, but that's that's the one. Uh, I'm excited about that. Big goal for me. Um, also, you know, I I was coaching, consultant for a while, I still am, but I've been doing it alone. Yeah, there's a there's a possibility I may launch something in the world of training combined with AI in the future, but um, I've been working on stuff like that, but I'll be honest, like the I I stepped in June of last year, I went from like 28 people I was consulting down to like eight in a matter of a month because I changed who I was working with. And something beautiful happened. We went from 9.8 million to 20 million, and I was like, you know, whoa, whoa, hey Bo, it maybe if you put a little bit more back in, it look at that. Look what just happened because I let that grow so much. So I think that as I continue to reinvest, I'm gonna see like you know, the C this operations coordinator become operations or COO in the next year and a half. I'm gonna see sales manager, probably uh we already have one. We have a customer service manager, probably gonna see a standalone trainer for service and sales. Um, that those are some of the big things that'll support that. But, you know, one one of the like personal goals is like I'm coaching a a travel like baseball team that's been real solid, real good, head coaching it. My my middle son is on it. I'm just really proud of him because you know he's he's just really he really works his butt off. So um next year he'll be trying out for high school, and I mean I he's he's good, he's an athlete, he's he works hard though. So a lot of people ride out on their their ability. This kid continues to push it, and that's not my goal, but it is cool to watch your kids, you know, hit their goals. And I'm really kind of excited about this summer for baseball and then him going to high school and trying out. But um, I stopped really getting excited about the future because uh you get sad about the past when you're always so focused on the future. So, how about this? Let me reel it back in since ADD took over a little bit. Um, I'm excited about today and tomorrow and just where we're at. Like uh I want to be content but not complacent. So I'm blessed to be where I'm at today, but I'm not complacent and I'm not done. And I think it's important for us when we get to points in our career that have been, you know, things we used to dream of. It's it's truly important to just take a second, thank God, and say, man, I'm glad to be where I'm at. What got me here may not get me to where I'm going, but I'm thankful to be where I'm at today. Myself at finish line back in the day would have been like, no freaking way. You did it, bro. I knew you couldn't. Give me a high five. Like, that's the thing that I constantly remind myself. I used to get in my company car that was paid for by corporate and be like, wow, this is awesome. Now I walk into the agency that I own and I see you know our Christmas party, 20-something employees at. It's just like from all over America. And to say, wow, so I'm I'm gonna reel it in and say, that's what it is. I'm I'm excited about where we're at today and where we're gonna be tomorrow. But I got big goals for the future, but I'm just thankful to be where I'm at today. God's been good. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 53:24

What Bo, what would you what would you tell a new agent coming in like right now, yeah, in this crazy wacky world we live in? Like, what would you say to them, the one thing that you think could make a big difference?

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Yeah. Well, I think you started to kind of talk a little bit about it. It's probably similar to what you would say. You better be ready to work hard. This is not something the people in insurance that work hard and are successful are some of the most successful in America. The ones that do not work hard are some of the biggest complainers in America. I want to make sure that you understand the difference. This is not a retirement where you're gonna write out, this is going to be what you have, this is gonna be probably harder than anything you've ever done. And you're gonna have to work hard, but the rewards are huge. So I would say get ready to work hard because the risk is is not ridiculous, but the reward is going to be huge, but you have to work hard. If you do not work hard, you're gonna fail. Number two, you better have more money than you think you need.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Right. Right? And not afraid to spend it. No. Invest it borrow it because it is invested, right? Like, I mean, you every dollar that goes in is an investment. Like it's figuring out how to make the dollar turn into five dollars, ten dollars, twenty dollars. Exactly. And in the beginning, it probably doesn't. You put in a dollar and you get back ten cents, right? You know, but the learning happens from that pain. Yeah, right? Like that's that's where it happens.

SPEAKER_01 54:53

Look at the data, like you need like as far as like lead analytics and stuff, I need a lot of data to make great decisions. I can't say, oh, I bought, I I tried that company and I bought a hundred leads and I spent two thousand bucks and they screwed me out. It's like, bro, that's not enough data to make a big decision like that. So it takes it takes more money and more hard work than people think buying an agency. And I wish that uh people that are like helping people buy them would be a little more honest that hey, you know, to scare them. You want the people a little scared that I gotta run and I better run fast uh towards the goal, you know, because if I do, great things happen. If I think I'm gonna sit down, it's actually gonna shrink here, like it doesn't grow if you don't run. So that those two things money and hard work, but but really the last one would be surround yourself with the greatest people, like the greatest. You know, you gotta. I always ask this before I end every interview: hey, I don't care what position you are, do you like to sell? Okay, because I need you to sell our agency on service side, I need you to sell the renewal, I need you to add coverage, I need you to sell the cross-sell and send it to my team. And the salespeople I need you to sell. So you better surround yourself with great salespeople. Um, if you're not a great salesperson, find a great one. If you are a great salesperson, find somebody to do the stuff you don't like. So those are my three top three uh advice for the new agent. Drop the mic.

SPEAKER_04 56:22

Love it, Bo. Thanks so much for joining us today. And we got to do this again.

SPEAKER_01 56:27

I I would love to. You know, what would be even better is like, you know, if I could see you guys in person at some point. I don't know if I'm I've made it to that level yet. But if I do and you think that our relationship has grown to a level of in-person, let me know. Okay? Good.

SPEAKER_04 56:42

I want I want to. Like I told you, I haven't been to a single agent event since before 2020.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

Well, let's uh I mean, let's get you out to CA maybe next year. It's a really fun event. I mean, you know, it I'm not just trying to plug mine, but like it's a really fun event. I mean, it's it's smaller, it's more invite, like it's more uh share what you do, not go on a stage and preach. It's like share what you do, give actionable steps. Preach. Let them ask. Let them ask. You know, let them ask questions. And yes, I do like to preach because this year I actually was the preacher. I mean the MC and the uh uh and a presenter, but yeah, I mean it it's fun, but you gotta get out, we gotta hang out. Uh you guys live in California?

SPEAKER_02 57:29

I live in Arizona, he's in California.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

Pick your address in the chat for everybody. I'm just kidding. Um I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_04 57:36

I know he has to run, he's got a kid thing, right? So I do have to take my son to baseball.

SPEAKER_01 57:43

Okay. Well, have fun at baseball. That's the best times of life, right?

SPEAKER_02 57:47

It is. It goes fast. Mine are 25 and 20. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 57:51

That's not possible.

SPEAKER_02 57:52

Yeah. I know. How could I be 25 and have a 2015?

SPEAKER_01 57:56

31, 32. That's it's obvious you married a cougar and they're her kids, right? Obviously. All right. Well, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 58:08

Yeah. Dude, Bo is awesome, man. Likewise.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

Thank you so much.