SPEAKER_03 0:00

Why can't we take the known thing that the guru or the person that is mentoring us is telling us and just do it? We're all on our own journey and we're all like building up our experience and our know-how. There's some level of maybe fear, uncertainty, unsure like not feeling good about themselves, self-doubt, how to overcome these things. When we were all born, we actually didn't have fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

The world started imprinting it on us.

SPEAKER_04 0:23

You've had a successful career of not only your life, jobs, kids, you're still married. What has allowed all of that to work?

SPEAKER_00 0:30

28 years old, I got given an executive coach, and the executive coach stabbed me down and said, I got this 360 report on you, and here's what I can tell you. He tells me all these things, and he said, you know, we really need to work on your We dial, we quote, we got the fluff, no suits, no script, just real world stuff from chaos to system.

SPEAKER_05 0:54

Growth, that's legit. Laugh a little, sell a lot the insurance dudes, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

So the wildest thing I ever saw happen at an insurance agent agency is when I was running a 10,000 unit fleet and the insurance agency came out, they sat down with me and they said, based on the driving skills of your 10,000 drivers, you are uninsurable. And took off, and I needed to find a new broker. We had a lot of bad drivers, a lot of bad drivers, a lot of accidents. And uh, so that was uh that was the craziest thing I saw was finding out that we had a company that size that was uninsurable.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Oh that is crazy. Why don't you introduce yourself to everybody?

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Yeah. So my name is Brendan Keegan. Uh, I'm an insurance student. I run Merchants Fleet. Boom! Boom. All right. So was there a gap? You know what here's here's what it was. Like we had uh we had 10,000 drivers out there, and they were bad drivers. Um that's a lot of bad drivers all in one place. Here's the thing like at the company, like we reported everything as an accident. If there was a fender banner got reported as an accident, when in reality probably shouldn't have reported that as an accident, so it just it was just uh the mod rate was high, we were uninsurable. We actually um had to self-insure for two years, improve and uh and then and then go back to market. So pretty crazy. Let me ask.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

Yeah, go for it. You self-insured a 10,000. I mean, I guess I guess that's what count a lot of counties and cities will end up doing, right? Because they have the big coffers, but still it's a lot of risk, especially if there's 10,000 bad drivers.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah, we have to we have to post a lot of money up. It was it was uh it was a big challenge. We we got it, we got it under control. We went back, and uh, I can tell you one thing we did. We uh in the company right now, Merchants Fleet, we we're a commercial fleet company, we got 200,000 uh vehicles on the road, and we're big fans of telematics. We want pro we want to proactively know, hey, what hey, what are those what are the drivers doing on the road? How can we prevent it? Create a point system, you get so many points for being uh hard braking, speeding, whatever, you know, and and you're out, you're out. So, but we didn't have telematics uh back when I just told that story.

SPEAKER_04 3:14

We happen to know a few large carriers that really are into uh telematics. Did you name them? No, actually, I'm not gonna oh you can't name one of them, yeah. So uh yeah. But uh it's interesting though, because we'll I mean we as agents hear a lot about telematics, and usually it's like uh maybe with a little apprehension from some of the agent force out there, but like from your angle, especially having that many drivers, wow, how valuable that can be for you.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yeah, well, you know, I've got uh I'm just thinking, you know, one one of my clients, they drive um big F250s and they're they're they're pulling things, pretty pretty heavy things. And every week she'll get a report of you know all the bad drivers, and every week she'll have somebody trailering over 100 miles an hour.

unknown 4:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

You know, and that's just you know, that's that's just not good. And and and there's so many use cases for telematics and in driver behavior, and ultimately it's it's you know, the the the companies want their drivers to be safe, but they also want the people on the road where they're driving to be safe. And um, I'm pretty confident that the uh the insurance agencies, you know, want that out there. You know, it's uh it's a lot less risk to to insure. But yeah, the telematics, you know, you get it you get an exception report every morning at 8 a.m. comes in, tells you all the uh all the bad things that some of your drivers did.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Dude, I mean a truck, a two an F250 pulling something going 100 is like a death machine. Like that thing is just whatever it hits is gonna die.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

And here's what's crazy it happens weekly, and they know there's a telematics device in the in the truck, and they still do it.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Well, it's because they've already drank five beers by then, so then it doesn't they don't care anymore. I don't know, but uh yeah, that's pretty insane. Um now just uh hopefully Elon's not listening to this, yeah, but I know that with the telematics, there are ways of there are ways to beat it, right? There's like ways to game it, like hard breaking, and you just you end up, you know, you could drive through the neighborhood and go like get get get up to speed and then like just drag the braking out so that so what do you know that, Greg? Huh? And how do you know? I have the Tesla app and I have to because I get you know, I know that I have a hard break, so I have to fix them. That's why I hope Elon's not listening. Hypothetically speaking, of course. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, have you caught any of that?

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Have you caught it? Yeah, oh there there's heartbreaking, there's idling, and uh, you know, getting off the a little bit of the with the telematics device. One of my favorite applications is uh, you know, one of our clients, you know, they get the report every day, and at the end of the day, they send it to HR. And you know, I was asking, well, you know, uh help me understand why do you send this to HR? They go, well, you know, a lot of our guys are contractors and some aren't the most honest, and they put their time cards in every day and they say, you know, I work till five, but yet the truck left the job site at 115. Oh, or you know, and and then idling, you know, um, you know, idling is a big thing. Just uh, you know, emissions is is something our clients are really focused on, and you know, heavy idling times when did the vehicle need to be idling? And and and that will report back. But you know, there's the the speeders, the the people that aren't where they're supposed to be, then there's route optimization, just getting people to where they need to be faster. And and then there's uh you know, hard breaking, um, speeding, and then just uh just just little things like idling, which is more you know environmental and and you know what's best for the vehicle, what's best for for for usage. Crazy.

SPEAKER_03 6:53

So I'm assuming you didn't start your career with 200,000 uh vehicles rolling on the road. Yeah, take us back to the humble beginnings, like what where you where you found your passion and and and kind of walk us through that experience.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yeah, so say if I took you back like high school, college, I always um I always liked student government. Um, you know, always liked uh kind of uh being in the student government. Uh went to an engineering school, learned how to program. I liked program, I liked technology, and I started at a company uh that Ross Perot founded back in the day called EDS. I was a programmer. Oh, you know, and and what's funny is after a couple of years, they said, Hey Brennan, we really think you're good with people. Now, what I didn't ask at 23 was, does that mean I'm not good at coding? Which I I I I really want to go back and ask them because I I I think I think they put a period at the end of the statement, you're really good with people when it should have been a comma because you're not as good at coding. Yeah. Yeah. But uh, you know, so so then, you know, I started my leadership journey and and you know, from there on, I've uh actually today is my 26th wedding anniversary, and I've been a CEO, president CEO now for 24 years. And really, really like leadership's my passion, just uh going into companies and and helping people uh grow, develop, uh, you know, attracting good talent. Now, but the way I got to merchants, what's interesting about that is you know that 10,000 person client, uh the 10,000 person fleet, that was 2009. I was actually merchant's largest client at the time. Wow. And then and then um, you know, being more from the technology side than the vehicle side, you know, they asked me to join their board and help them build out the technology at the company. And the only warning I'd give your listeners out there is, you know, hey, if you're a board member and you keep making lots of suggestions and you kind of bug them enough, eventually they say, Hey, buddy, you think you think you got all the answers, you think you're so smart, why don't you come run the place? And and uh then then you do, then you do, and and here I am. Super cool.

SPEAKER_04 8:55

And I I it it is funny like um how synonymous like leadership is with I mean you being married for so long, like that's that is a leadership or role that's probably even harder.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Yeah, I would say my wife has a harder side of that of that journey. Do you have kids? I do, I do a 19 and 21 year old. So so uh it's been fun watching journeys.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

You are one year it in all three things past me. So I'm 25 years married. I have my son is 18 and my daughter is well, my daughter's 22. So yeah, yeah. That's funny. Yeah, I got you on that one. I don't know, whatever. Crazy. It's so we're both old. No, I'm slightly younger.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yeah. I'm looking at you. You look like you're staying young. Uh you're doing you're doing well over there.

SPEAKER_03 9:55

Yeah. Uh um, it's just you know, all the knickknacks around me, keep me young. Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Are you out in Huntington Beach as well?

SPEAKER_03 10:02

Are you out there? No, I'm in Arizona, Tucson.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Okay, there you go. There's keeping keeping you warm and young out there.

SPEAKER_03 10:08

Yeah, leathery skin. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:12

But it's just so like the reason why I asked you that is because that that whole like being passionate about leadership and leadership is so important in the workplace. I mean, I just it's like one of those skills and um things that like when you are married and you have kids, you start taking a little bit more seriously because you understand how much uh it is needed and and what an impact you can make.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

I just wrote an article the other day, I think it just came out maybe um what's say on Monday, and it's on you know, parenting and mentoring. And, you know, how do you parent your kids, you know, but also how do you give them some mentorship? And it's just uh, you know, it's been interesting. You know, my my dad called uh high school and college years as the valley of ignorance, you know, when you're younger, you know, your your parents are the smartest people, and as you go through high school, they're your parents' IQ generally goes down until senior year when you know they they're you know the lowest IQ, and then it picks back up. But you know, it's it's been funny even to see with my own kids as they're starting to, you know, my daughter like, look for an internship. What am I gonna do after school? And then they're friends. And you know, I just took um uh my son's a senior in high school, I took all a group of his friends away, and you know, all of a sudden they're asking me, like, what do you do? And where what should I do? And it's just neat when you start to um you know see young kids like look to other people and say, like, how you know, how did you get a job? How do you decide where you were going to school? And and I love those conversations, especially with young people, because if you invest in them, if you invest in them, you can legitimately change the trajectory of a 20-year-old's life. Yeah, just with, and by the way, not with magical advice. Sometimes the advice is absolutely so basic.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

It it's almost always that way, right? It it is, it is. But like we were we were just talking earlier about something I read in a book, and and basically it's it's the whole, you know, keep your friends closer, your enemies closer thing, which it's like this makes sense. But then reading through these examples, it's like, ah, it's so obvious, you know, and just something that you don't like, all these great things that are so obvious that just you don't apply, right? Yeah, and then you you struggle, struggle, struggle, struggle, and you're like, oh, maybe I should do it this way. And that was the original way that we should have done it when we were looking at it the first time, right? Yeah, why do we do that? Why can't we take the known thing that that the guru or the person that is mentoring us is telling us and just do it? Why do we have to go, no, no, I gotta do it this way, and then I'm gonna fail, fail, fail, fail. Okay, I'll do it that way.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

You know, I think it's as simple as we're all units of one. You know, we're each unique, we've we're all on our own journey and we're all like building up our experience and our know-how. Now, I do think, you know, maybe people that get somewhere earlier, somewhere could be uh college, it could be uh uh first promotion, it could be um buying a house, whatever it is. I think those are people that maybe were better at listening to those around them. And and and I know, you know, I had mentors in my life, and you know, I think one of my mentors at one time probably kept me out of jail for homicide when I was running hot after a meeting. And you know, uh other mentors, you know, like made things that were really big in my head, you know, like wow, I can't believe this is happening. And they're like, it's a blip, it's a day, it's a week, you know, you got a 30-year career ahead of you. And but when you're in the moment, it's it's big. It it's you don't have perspective. Um you know, so I think that's something, and and you don't have perspective because you you don't have perspective, you don't have experience, you haven't been through it. Uh, you know, we have interns here at the company, and and you know, you talk to them and you realize, you know, wow, you know, a 20-year-old is is a 20-year-old, you know, they're they're learning, they're they're learning things for the first time. They, you know, it's it's what do I wear in the office? You know, like they they don't know.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

Um because we were all there, right? Like you you see them do it and you think back, you're like, oh wow, I remember when I learned that thing, and and it's just nuts that they don't know it.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

And for the last 30 years, we have right, like, yeah, and and and you know, in in in some ways, the environment now, I think for a young uh person with the aspirations, I think with the hybrid and remote, I actually think it's harder because you know, like sometimes you just do you know, being at home and in remote, if that's your job. I like I I look at some of the lessons I learned, they were just by being in, like watching the person next to me struggle. I remember at one point, you know, they said, Brennan, we want to put you in sales. I had no idea how to sell whatsoever, but I remember listening to this guy, Jeff, I sat next to, like listening to him on calls with clients and and asking them how do you prepare? If I were remote, I just wouldn't have had those learning experiences. So, you know, one thing I I I tell uh young people in their careers is is whether you can be remote or hybrid guard of the office. There's just stuff. And by the way, it's really tough getting the next promotion or next assignment when you're not known. Yeah, and and and when you're remote, it's very easy to forget a young person, for that matter, anybody, when they're remote, yeah. Versus, hey, who's the guy that sits in the third row? He he's a really hard worker, he's here all the time. Who's that? Yeah, sometimes that's the person that gets that little break, and it's just because they were there, they were known. When one of my mentors called it the law of physical presence, he goes, You you gotta be there to show up. If you want to play the big game, you gotta show up.

SPEAKER_03 16:02

Yeah, you can't play in the Super Bowl remotely.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

But just think of that. Just the law of physical presence, just show up. Like it sounds easy, but you know, like it's it's sometimes it's not.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

The hardest part of going to the gym is just going there.

SPEAKER_04 16:16

There you go. Right. It is funny though, like uh that is that is the thing, right? And the default is to not go into work because the the benefit is that you can work remote, but like then it's like what's your competitive advantage to your peers? I mean, definitely going in because right, because at least 50% of them are choosing home. That already puts you in the lead uh in the lead above 50% of the employees at work. So I think that's a that's one of those great leadership pieces of advice for younger people. Um, because I feel the same way. Like if my employees are eager to come into work, it's like, wow, thank you. Like, um, I mean, there's a there's a certain uh level of uh confidence and buy-in that you feel when somebody actually wants to come in.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Well, also what I just think of like just think of my day today. So, you know, you've got your calendar, it's laid out, and then there's things happen. Well, if you want those things to happen somehow, maybe land on your desk with more responsibility or more whatever, like sometimes it doesn't go to the most qualified. Sometimes it goes to uh who's known, who's available, who's around, who's got and and again, if you're not there, well, you know, I you know, uh uh I'm a big Patriots fan on the East Coast. You know, Bill Belichick used to have a line the best ability is availability. You know, if you're on the injured report every week, it doesn't matter how good you are. I can't play you. So, you know, the best ability sometimes is showing up, sometimes being present, being available. Um, and and that, you know, we just when we had our interns, we did a little thing uh a couple weeks ago. And when we were saying goodbye to them, they said, Hey Brennan, you know, what's some advice? That's one of the things I said is you know, be known and also know what you want. Like, I can't help you get where you want to go if you don't know where you want to go. But if you if if you're if you're if you're a 23-year-old and you come to me and you say, Someday I'd like to work in finance and I'd really like to understand more about accounting, and I can put that in the back of my head. A project comes up and I can go, oh, what about Charlie? But if if if I say, Hey, what are you looking to do? I don't know. Right, I can't, I can't help you get to I don't know land. 100%.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

It's funny, it's like full circle. It goes back to what you were saying earlier of how you became chairman of the board, was because you were there and you kept chiming in. And they're like, Well, squeaky wheel, baby. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:41

And just, you know, I I I uh you know, I say that and and now let's go to the boardroom. Let's go to the boardroom. So we were just at interns, we'll go to the boardroom. You know, as a board member, you've got a responsibility to kind of you know listen, absorb, but also give back. And you know, in you know, too many times, and and I'm thinking nonprofit boards, you know, whether it's with your kids' soccer team or school or or or a public company or private company, it's it's you know, are you showing up in in governing or are you showing up and adding value? And and it's not, you know, it's like let's say you have four board meetings a year, showing up to the board meeting, that's the minimum. That's like going to practice if you're uh high school athlete. That's the minimum. You know, do you do you want to do you do you want to start for varsity? Do you want to make varsity? Do you do you want to play in college? Practices are the minimum. You know, what are you doing outside of practice? Are you are you lifting? Are you conditioning? Are you so you know, if you're now a board member, so we'll go from intern to board member, showing up to the meetings? That's like going to practice. Like, of course you go to the meetings. But, you know, I are you learning about the industry that the company's in? Are you researching their competitors? Are you thinking of ways they could improve their top line, their bottom line? Are you are you at a conference and you network with somebody and you go, you know what? I want to put you in in touch with this company that I'm on the board of. And it it's no, you think of it, it's no different. One might be a 21-year-old, one might be now a 50-year-old. We're kind of doing bookends there, but you know, it's it's uh it's shown up, but then it's like now it's defining what is my value add? What more can I, what more can I do? What more can I offer? Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

I mean that. So it seems to me that if somebody isn't showing up, there's some level of of maybe fear, uncertainty, unsure, uh like not feeling good about themselves, self-doubt. Um, I know in in your book, FUD Factor, which is back there behind you, you talk about you talk about like overcoming these things, how to how to overcome these things and why kind of why they're in roaming around in our head. Could you could you go into that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yeah, so you know, like when we were all born, we actually didn't have fear, uncertainty, and doubt. And then unintentionally, the world started imprinting it on us. So, you know, one example I use in the book is, you know, as kids, we probably all skateboarded, and yet, you know, parents will say, Hey, put a helmet on. No way. But but the kid was this kid's like the kid was not thinking, I'm gonna get on the skateboard, I'm gonna fall.

SPEAKER_03 21:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Like there was that was not in a five-year-old, a 10 year, it wasn't even in their thought process, but we we injected it. And you know, and by the way, we we do you know all sorts of this. So and next thing you know, someone's saying, like, you know, hey, am I gonna make the team? And then it's like, you know, I'm not gonna try out. Well, because it's easy. If I don't try out, then I'm I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna fail. And I'll tell you, today, I think there's more expectations on people than there's ever been. Social media puts like um pressures. Where are you cool? Are you invited to the party? Uh, are you doing fun things with your family? You know, I like that shirt that you say once in a while. I wish my life was as good as yours is on Facebook. You know, it's like, hey, you know, there's this, there's this, you know, uh, you know, expectation out there. So that actually creates that accelerates fear uncertainty and Out. And, you know, as you look to overcome it, one of the first things is, you know, I have a saying, have the courage to fail and the faith to succeed. You just have to say, I'm willing to fail. I'm willing to fail. And, you know, short of certain jobs, like if you're in the military, you're in law enforcement, you're you're in healthcare, you know, most of us have day-to-day jobs that if you fail, things are gonna be okay. Things are gonna be okay. Um, so I'm not suggesting that, you know, if you're the receptionist at the hospital, you try surgery, not going that far. But, you know, if we don't have surgeons that are that are pushing for new procedures, uh, we're we're never gonna solve um, you know, uh the diseases and illnesses. But there what I find interesting is is culturally, companies can take that fear away. Where you talk about your failures, you talk about your successes. I know here at Merchants in the last five years, you know, we're a 60-year-old company, we went from 500 million to uh two and a half billion. We had this tremendous growth, but we talk about our failures. We talk about businesses we entered that just failed, and what that sends a message to others that you can start a business or you can have an idea, and it's okay if it fails, as opposed to um, well, you know, that team's no longer here, you know, you know, or sweeping under the rug and not talking about it. But you know, I've never met anybody in any profession doing anything that's great that didn't fail a lot.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

100%. Yeah, think of the top salesperson in the organization, right? They fail more than anybody.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yeah, they'll they'll tell you, oh yeah, you know, I closed 10 deals. I I pursued a hundred. Right. And I closed. And then there's somebody else that's like, wow, I only pursued 20. And you wonder why, you know, you sold a third. You know, you know, Wayne Gretzky used to say, you know, you know, whatever. I I don't know the quote, but he used to talk about you know how many shots he missed, not how many he made. You know, Michael Jordan talks about, you know, I hit X number of game winners, but here's how many I took. Right. You know, and and but that's but those are people that got to to to greatness. But you know, like like if if the three of us said, hey, let's go skiing for a weekend, and we all said, hey, let's really push ourselves. I want to be a better skier. Well, if I never push myself, never fall, never go down a black diamond because I just don't want to fall and I don't, then I'm probably not really getting better. Right. Right. Which is by the way, if I say I don't want to be better, that's fine. But if I say no, I actually want to become an expert skier. I want to become um, I want to be able to be as good as my kids now as they're getting older. Well, then you're gonna have to sign up for I might, you know, I'm probably gonna fall a couple of times today. I'm gonna try to to to do to do better. I'm gonna go on some tougher, I'm gonna challenge myself a little bit more. But you know, sometimes we're just protective of ourselves. But you know, in companies, you know, I look to leaders and say, are you creating a culture that allows um failure? And if you are in in and you talk about it, then you start to pull away fear. And I will tell you, if you're able to do that, you will grow faster. Because employees have so many unbelievable ideas, like just crazy good ideas, but they won't bring them forward if the feeling is if it works, it's great. And if it's not, I could I could lose my job, I could get in trouble. Um, that's gonna take me off the promotion list. Uh what whatever, then you know, you're gonna have a big percent not bring those ideas forward.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Yep. A lot of businesses are a fear-based organization, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Absolutely, absolutely. That is not healthy. No, it it's not. And what it does is it it breeds it then. You know, and then next thing you know, you'll hear things like, Yeah, uh, you know, we tried that a few years ago, I wouldn't even bring it up. Okay, well, yeah. Well, if you tried it a few years ago, well, you know, well, let's take the business I'm in. Well, we tried that a few years ago. Well, if you tried telematics 10 years ago, it probably didn't work. If you tried electric fleets five years ago, there weren't as many chargers. So, but if you said we're just not gonna try this electrification thing, we tried it before, it didn't work. Well, for 10 years, 10 years you're gonna be left behind. You know, it's like it's it's like Blockbuster not thinking streaming was gonna catch on. Insane, right? Like, how do they not catch that?

SPEAKER_03 26:25

Like, and then eventually, right? Yeah, a little late. Yeah, way late. I saw the like I saw this meme, and it was uh it was a guy um in a very oh like one of the first cars, like a Model T or Model A or whatever it was, and he's on there, and then there's a guy look like looking up at him pointing, and he says, Yeah, but where are you gonna go and fill that thing up with gas? You can't do it like with a horse where you can just stop and and let the horse eat, you know, I don't spill my water. Yeah, but uh yeah, it's funny. It's like you got to just be ahead of it.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Yeah, I mean, just you know, let's think back, I don't know, 30 years ago when there wasn't email, you know. You know, you know, in our uh we used to have um I know I know I know some of your listeners don't know this, but we had little floppy drives and little three and a half inch drives, and we saved our stuff on that and we walked around. You know, here's an iPhone that has more storage on probably any computer I had till what 2000.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

Right. Probably like more than the whole office building all put together, you know, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

But but if you had this mental model of, hey, well, that's not gonna work, because you you weren't staying up with with with technology, technology is a great disruptor in in our society, you know, it in an enabler that allows us to do things, then you know, then business is gonna pass you by. You know, other companies are gonna are gonna pass you by. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

So you have people that are raised in this environment where they're where they're indoctrinated into into self-doubt, they're they go to work in a fear-based place. Like, how do you break them? Like you're the leader. Now it's your role to break that cycle.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Yeah, you know, it really starts with just changing your mindset. And and, you know, again, I go back to that saying, have the courage to fail, faith to succeed. It's it's you know, finding, you know, where are you comfortable? Everyone has some space in their life where they are very comfortable. Um, you know, for for somebody, it could be video gaming. It's like, hey, I'm I'm I'm a risk taker when I'm video gaming. For another person, it could be a casino. Like, oh, all of a sudden they're this buttoned-down person in the office and they never take a risk. They go to a casino and they they take a risk. You know, another person could be a hobby, you know, they're they're buttoned down at the office, they don't take risks, and they're a skydiver. So it's like everyone's got it in them. It's how do you bring that person out? How do you bring that person out to more dimensions of your of your life? And and and I think that's where it's it's finding that um that that fearlessness inside all of us. We all have it. We were born with it. It's just channeling it. And sometimes if you're in an organization that really is fear-based, sometimes the answer is, you know, I probably need to go someplace else.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Uh and and and that that's okay. That's okay to say, if I want to get to where I want to go, if I want to um, you know, be in a more open-minded, this isn't gonna work here. That is perfectly okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:21

How about the alter, the other side? You're the leader, they come and work at you. You have the right place, but now this person has really been beat down because of the way that it works. How do you help them?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Yeah, that's where, you know, you know, patiently coaching them up, mentoring them, leading them, um, you know, giving examples like tangible examples of program of other companies where it's worked. Uh, what I love now is so many uh colleges and universities have these things called like micro-credentials. You can go online, $500, $800. Um, sometimes it's even less. Sometimes it's freeware, uh, where you can take uh you can take a program on design thinking, you can take one on innovative thinking. And you by the way, I've I've I've I've done a number of these, and what I find at the end of them when they're done well is that was pretty simple stuff. That wasn't rocket science. Like, and you sit there and go, wait, I I just did that for six hours, and the only things I got I took away were A, B, and C. But what if you step back, don't be disappointed that they only taught you three things. What you should realize is I only have to do these three things to be more innovative. I only have to do these three things to communicate better, or or you know, whatever you happen to be to be focused on. And and you know, I I try to take one of those every year and I try to move it around. And you know, a couple years ago I took one on innovation, and I'm like, yeah, you know, it's it's it's it I think we all think of the big innovations. We think of the Teslas of the world, the Apple uh iPods of the world. And sure, those are big innovations and those get the headlines, but I mean, there's literally innovations around every single corner. Like if you opened up your pantry, there's innovations in food. If you opened up uh your garage, there's innovations in your garage door opener and how it works. And, you know, hey, how can I get this on an app now? Um, wireless technology, they're everywhere. You just have to say, where am I gonna, where am I gonna bring my my innovative self, my fearless self out to play? And how am I gonna make my mark on the world? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

And it's funny too, because like I think when you're young, you you get taught uh about invention a lot. So everybody's trying to come up with like the new idea, the new thing, where it's like innovation is really where things happen. Like, like most of like even the automobile was like a was an innovation in a sense where you know it took multiple um, you know, the gas theme engine and like put it with wheels. And then like it wasn't it was more and even Ford, Ford. I mean, the cars were around, he just came out with a way that, hey, we can actually make these mass produce them. So it's like innovation's really where it's at. And it's just taking a couple common ideas and sticking them together and presenting it. And I I I think that like I love what you said about the simplicity factor too, because I love what um uh Leonardo uh Da Vinci said, where like simplicity is the ultimate sophistication, and it truly is. Like even in my life in the last year, uh Craig can attest to this too, like like a lot of the stuff that we're doing. Anyway, I'm not gonna bore you in any way in our business and stuff like that. It just got real complex. And when you're you're in a complex state, it's really hard to be um to have any kind of creativity. It's kind of hard to to have any kind of like growth within that. And really peeling it away by going down to simplicity makes things uh easy. It makes you be able to explore, like to your point, if you did the class, you learned three different things. I mean, the three things are gonna have uh you're gonna have you know thousands of thoughts about those three things and really be able to grow on them. Where if it was a thousand things, you'd forget most of them and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

One of the things I always say is, you know, building something complex is pretty easy. Building something simple is very hard. Yeah. You know, simplifying like if you if you're if you if you are you know responsible for insurance claims at your company and you got to develop a process for how are we gonna do it, building this complex process is pretty easy, right? But but saying, wait, I want to simplify this so anybody can come in and work in the back end of my business and and I can I can use this as a rotating job and bring you know young people in and then they can step up, that's actually much harder. It you have to put a lot more thought into it, you have to put more governance into it, you got to put more um guardrails, and it's like, wow, this is really hard. But just having it be leaving it complex is is easy. And and and I think that's where you know I look at people who have had repeatable success, you know, in different industries, repeatable success over a long period of time. Generally speaking, they've been pretty iterative, they've been willing to change, um, they've been innovative. But if you go, if you say to them, what makes you great, they're gonna tell you something like, hey, I do these, uh, you know, Kobe Bryant, you know, I get up early, I go to the gym, I outwork my competition. You know, it's like you're like, that's the secret.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

He would tell you, yes, it is. It is. And you're you're you you think it's you know, some elaborate plan he's got, and it it's not. It's it's just a piece of things done well.

SPEAKER_03 34:44

Activity and consistency, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:45

Yeah, yeah. Consistency is another big part. You know, we talk about simplicity, you know, you you then you need consistency with it. And you know, you talked about you know, Ford, that's what he brought with the assembly line. The assembly line, you know, made the vehicle easier to produce, faster produced, less expensive produce, but a consistent product because people were doing repetitive things, which allowed them to become more as it was simpler, it allowed them to become more consistent and perform at a higher level.

SPEAKER_04 35:13

Yep. Gosh, and I want to bring this back full circle. So with that concept of simplicity and and uh in leadership, and you've had a successful career of not only your your life or your uh your jobs, but also like your life, kids, you're still married. Um what has been the uh part of the 1%? What has allowed all of that to work, especially with the ambitious uh career that you've had?

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Yeah, what I'd tell you is I uh I I when I was I can tell you I was 28 years old, I got given an executive coach, and the executive coach sat me down and said, Brennan, you know, I I got this 360 report on you, and here's what I can tell you. He tells me all these things, and he said, you know, we really need to work on your EQ. And at the time, I was like, you know, what's EQ? And he said, emotional intelligence. And he said, you know, you it appears that you you've got the IQ to get where you want to go. It appears you've got the drive and you're personable. And I'm sitting there 28 thinking, like, hey, this guy's nailing it. I'm I'm the man. And then all of a sudden he hits me, all of a sudden he hits me with, I don't see you having a great career until you can in and conquer EQ. Because the difference between where you're at and where you want to go is is, you know, um, you know, like I was a very aggressive leader, like, hey, we're gonna go take the hill, you know, and it was like take the hill at no whatever cost. Um and and you know, I was more focused on my team's goals than maybe the company's goals at the time, you know, just different things that come with a little bit of of youth and ambition. And and I can tell you, I think what's helped me over the last say 20 years is is EQ, realizing that, you know, hey, what happens today isn't gonna define me. Um, today's failure isn't gonna define me. Today's success isn't gonna define me either, you know. And I think we've had people that had a big success in their career and you know, they became all that, and they they read their press clippings and maybe got you know a big head and stuff. And you know, and as you're raising kids, you realize your kids are your kids are gonna have wins and losses and and successes and failures. And how do you build them so that they're theirs? Because as a parent, and I saw it, I coached foot uh sports for 10 years. I saw all these parents that really wanted to, you know, come take their kids' challenges on. It's like, wait, what do your kids advocate for themselves? There's nothing stronger than somebody advocating. But so for me, uh I would tell you that, you know, I I really I've said this a thousand times. I wish I had that executive coach's name so I could write them a thank you once a year. But somebody catching me at a young age saying, you know, you've got all the IQ, you've got all the potential, right? As a lot of people do, but you got to work on your EQ if you really want to like endure for the long term. And as a parent, man, it's way more EQ than IQ.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Um, it's just way more EQ. Like we we all have the IQ to to you know tell the kids what's right and wrong, but yeah, we have the EQ to like help them uh navigate situations that like you didn't know you're gonna have to navigate. Um, and you know, and when do you let something slide and go, I'm not gonna get on them for everything? You know, right? And when when do you not? And to me, that's not that's not IQ. That that that that's EQ. And so I I think um, you know, it's uh if you want to have a a long, successful career, if uh a good marriage, a good parent, good community person, you know, having that balance. And I think uh EQ really, really uh, at least for me, has been something I've worked at. And I say work at is that you never stop working on it. It's a practice. It is like, you know, like again, I mentioned earlier, social media has brought in a whole new uh revelation of of you know, well, how do you handle that? How do you handle like not being invited? All your friends are at a party and you're sitting there going, well, it looks like they're having fun, you know, and you go, hey, no problem. Yeah, you know, just how do you how do you handle all that? And I think EQ is the is a is a great differentiator if you have high aspirations.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

Yeah, 100%. I'd I'd love to piggyback off that uh too with identity. So you talked about like having the successes and the non-successes and and you know, like how have you dealt with that throughout your career is being you know, your identity as being a leader, as being a CEO, and then your identity as coming home and and being the father that's supposed, you know, having that EQ and being able to have those conversations, be able to not be able to withhold because there's like two, I I I feel like it's two different roles, right? When you're at work, you're on it. And when you're like at home, you you gotta listen. Like the the more you can shut up and just listen to everybody in the household, like the better job you do, you know?

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Yeah, I gotta tell you, you know, I I I think I learned more about I've learned more about my kids uh driving them to sports when they've got their kids in the when they've got their friends in the car than anything. Like I love driving because like sometimes I'd be like they're in the back seat, you know, you drive in down the road, and you're like, they have they have no real idea that I'm actually in this vehicle with them.

SPEAKER_03 40:28

Yeah, and certainly you're not listening, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Like you're talking about their coach, you're talking about their school, they're talking about what they're gonna do, what they're not gonna do. And and I just think those are precious moments. Like if you take it in, if you take it in invite, and by the way, don't participate, right? Just take it in.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

Yeah, yeah, it's like fly on the wall. You get to see the real stuff, right? Like seeing them interact with their friends like little humans when and you know, especially like teens, when they start saying they're like insightful stuff and the way they behave, it's so interesting. Yeah, because it's different, right? It's you don't see that when you're just with them.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

That's pretty it's pretty interesting. So for those of you with young kids, including Jason, like more of that. It's it's it is pretty fascinating, like as they as they get older.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

And they and and and and this is everyone listening knows this, but and they get older quick. Yeah, they get older quick. It's it's uh just you know, it you know, it's it's it's uh cherish like every moment you have with them. And yeah, it's something no matter how big your job, no matter how busy you are, you're never too busy for your family. You're just never, never too busy for your family. Just make that decision.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

My son Kenzo is taking a gap year. He's in a van driving around the country doing climbing, like climbing, you know, doing mountain climbing. Yeah, and so um we're by ourselves now. It's freaking weird. Two of the two of the animals died, like we have one dog, and and my wife and I, and it's just bizarre, you know, it's like so quiet at the house. So I mean you know the same thing. So and now she gets to be annoyed with you because you're around all the time. Well, see, the thing is she does, but then she tells me to go away and then I can do what I want. So it all works out. Well, we didn't even we didn't talk too much on on the FUD. So before we wrap up, why don't you talk about the FUD factor? Um, what just just give us give us that that in the details and the juiciness on that.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Yeah, so so what I'd say it's really written for anybody, you know. I've got lots of stories in there from um from a high school kid that wanted to play Division I lacrosse, got recruited to play at Rutgers, and tells his story to uh to Zach Brown at McLaren Racing, who talks about how he came in when McLaren was at ninth and and you know the worst they had been in McLaren's history, bringing them up to fourth, and then tons of stories in between of just you know common people that overcame their fears or overcame organizational fears and got their themselves, their their friends, their company uh to a different level. Um, and then through there, I I give very, I believe is very pragmatic, practical advice of how to do it. Um, and you know, I have a few stories in there on myself, but I try to bring stories just that people can relate to again from a from a young lacrosse player to you know the CEO of an iconic company. And uh it it's it's a short read, it's it's pretty easy read, and um, and it's uh it's really meant, it's not targeted at one particular uh age group or audience or level. It's it's uh you know, it was harder to write that way, but really targeted for you know an 18-year-old or a 50-year-old, you know, somebody who wants to be better, somebody who's maybe stuck saying, like, what do I how do I get past this? And somebody that just um really is an emerging leader as well. Like, okay, I'm an emerging leader, I know I gotta learn some things. What you know, what do I do? So pretty simple, straightforward, and then uh hopefully a fun read as well. Awesome. Love it.

SPEAKER_03 43:49

You can find it on Amazon. Uh, we'll we'll throw the link in the show notes. Uh so hopefully that'll get some people over there grabbing that book. You can get it. There's a hardcover, there's a Kindle version, and you can do it, Jason. Audio book. I love it. Did you read it? Did you read it? Did I read it? Yeah, did you read the I mean was it for the audio margin?

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Oh no, I did not. No, I did not. I know you read the book because you wrote the I was yeah, I was like, that's a weird.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

I didn't realize he was this unintelligent. Well, perfect. Hey, thank you so much, Brendan, Brendan, for coming on the show. It was awesome. Uh little little technical stuff at the beginning, but I'm glad that it worked out and it was awesome, man.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

All right. Hey, you guys are great. Thanks for doing this. And and uh, you know, I I enjoy your audience and I enjoy your show. Thanks so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate it.